Drill Tips and drills for for-aft balance?

[Don in Morrison]

Sure..if you can find a downhill rink

All the downhill rinks are closed in the summer.

 

[markojp]

This thread is going downhill But skating in a flat is probably good for balance, and fore-aft awareness, anyways?

Yes. But I wouldn't get too worried about maximum optimization of exercise for skiing unless it's your primary sorce of income, which is unlikely for most. 'Fun' is what gets it done. (Skating is fun, and that's plenty enough reason! ) In general if you cover the strength, flexibility, and aerobic bases, you'll be well set up for next season.Skating does all that and more!

 

[Mendieta]

Yes. But I wouldn't get too worried about maximum optimization of exercise for skiing unless it's your primary sorce of income, which is unlikely for most. 'Fun' is what gets it done. (Skating is fun, and that's plenty enough reason! ) In general if you cover the strength, flexibility, and aerobic bases, you'll be well set up for next season.Skating does all that and more!

Great perspective, @markojp . This is exactly why I was asking. In my town, only teens inline-skate, so the fun thing to do would be hitting the ice-rink. Cheers!

 

[oldschoolskier]

I'm going to suggest hockey skates over figure skates. They force you to balance more. Figure skates are a little flatter towards the tail so you can sit back slightly, do that on hockey skate and your tailbone will hate you.

 

[James]

Great perspective, @markojp . This is exactly why I was asking. In my town, only teens inline-skate, so the fun thing to do would be hitting the ice-rink. Cheers!

Surprised teens inline skate. Seems to have disappeared largely.
Inline skating is easier to do, cheaper, and quite varied actually. Ranges from trick skates with smaller and much harder wheels so you can have some slide, to racing skates with much larger and softer wheels.
The biggest thing is the surface it isn't flat.

 

[Don in Morrison]

It's possible on ice skates, but you have to accelerate up to speed, and then after 3 or 4 "skiing" turns, you've scrubbed off enough speed that you have to do it all over again. Repeat repeatedly. With inline skates on a gentle hill, you can "ski" as long as the hill lasts.

When I was trying to teach a couple of my adult children to ski, they struggled until I told them, "pretend you're going down a hill on your rollerblades." After that, everything clicked in their heads and they were skiing parallel from that point on.

 

[markojp]

What's cool with ice skates is you can 'carve' or 'slide/skid', and to varying degrees.

 

[JESinstr]

What's cool with ice skates is you can 'carve' or 'slide/skid', and to varying degrees.

Don't want to throw cold water on this great discussion but saying you can carve on skates is a bit of a stretch. By definition, carving requires that the tools (skis) be capable of bending into and arc. Skates are prefixed in shape. This goes back to what I have been trying to say and that is skiing is unique in terms of the skier needing to edge and fore and aft balance against the prevailing force in order to bend the ski and create circular travel. But carry on. Enthusiasm is contagious.

 

[markojp]

Jes, do you skate? If you can't leave clean arcs on a freshly zambonied surface, I don't know what to say.

 

[Mike King]

To be fair, there is a difference between carving on skates and on skis. You do have to bend the ski and you can't bend a skate. It does appear to me based on my limited recent experience in inline skating that there is a fair amount of cross over including the finesse in turn mechanics.

Mike

 

[Mendieta]

To be fair, there is a difference between carving on skates and on skis. You do have to bend the ski and you can't bend a skate. It does appear to me based on my limited recent experience in inline skating that there is a fair amount of cross over including the finesse in turn mechanics.

Mike

Yes, let's not get derailed, please, we were doing so well. @markojp was obviously talking about ice skating (including the ice skating version of carving) as a good exercise for for-aft balance in skiing, not as a replacement or complete equivalent.

Cheers!

 

[JESinstr]

Jes, do you skate? If you can't leave clean arcs on a freshly zambonied surface, I don't know what to say.

Please try to read before you respond. I am not trying to create a "Train Wreck"

I didn't say that skates can't create circular travel, I said the the definition of carving in relation to the sport of skiing requires the ski to be shaped (by the skier) to form an arc. Once that process is begun, the ski (and the skier) will travel in an arc (circle). I didn't know you could shape your skates! Being fixed in the shape of an arc, the skater needs to physically create velocity and angles. Reference OldSchool's comment on hockey skates above

In fact, if you want to get down to it, (once velocity is established), Skiing requires a range of fore and aft balance to begin, maintain and complete a turn . Skating on the other hand requires a limited range of fore and aft balance in order to stay in the sweet spot of the blade.

 

[James]

Jes, do you skate? If you can't leave clean arcs on a freshly zambonied surface, I don't know what to say.

Seriously. Where is it written that carving requires bending?
There's also debate on whether the tail really ever follows the tip exactly. (Have we settled this?)

One cool thing with ice skates is they have an inside and an outside edge. Like skis.
The other great thing about ice skating is you commit your body into the inside of the turn. Like if you've ever swooped around the net. There you have a fore and aft skate, basically commit way inside the turn and use your momentum to make a turn. Fore skate controls the radius usually.

And now for some relaxing music...
Can't do this on skis.

 

[JESinstr]

Seriously. Where is it written that carving requires bending?

Carve turn - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carve_turn

A carve turn is a skiing term, used to refer to a turning technique in which the ski shifts to one side or the other on its edges. When edged, the sidecut geometry causes the ski to bend into an arc, and the ski naturally follows this arc shape to produce a turning motion.

 

[mdf]

If I'm remembering correctly, hockey skates have quite a bit of rocker while figure skates have just a little. Looks like those speed skates have almost none.

There is a radius of curvature vs edge angle trig relationship analogous to the well-known ski sidecut radius relation. Without doing any careful thinking, it is probably something like "turn radius" = "skate radius"/sin(edge angle).

Edit - the two footed sharp turn is probably controlled by the angle between front and back skates.

It's been years since I skated, so my sense memories is a bit fuzzy here.

 

[T-Square]

Speed skates = long straight blades for speed and acceleration
Figure skates = curved blades for ease for spins and maneuvering
Hockey skates = blend of both, curved at the front for quick turns, straight at the rear for speed and acceleration

I love teaching skaters to ski. It's a breeze direct to parallel lesson. Just build on the existing muscle memory.

 

[markojp]

Please try to read before you respond. I am not trying to create a "Train Wreck"

I didn't say that skates can't create circular travel, I said the the definition of carving in relation to the sport of skiing requires the ski to be shaped (by the skier) to form an arc. Once that process is begun, the ski (and the skier) will travel in an arc (circle). I didn't know you could shape your skates! Being fixed in the shape of an arc, the skater needs to physically create velocity and angles. Reference OldSchool's comment on hockey skates above

In fact, if you want to get down to it, (once velocity is established), Skiing requires a range of fore and aft balance to begin, maintain and complete a turn . Skating on the other hand requires a limited range of fore and aft balance in order to stay in the sweet spot of the blade.

I read your post with great clarity. It was the certainty of the 'skates can't carve' statement that seemed odd. That small skating sweetspot you mentioned often gets messed with by very large bodies trying their darndest to mess with the first PSIA fundimental.


Mendieta, here's something to do to help your skiing over the summer... Derailed, yes. Train wreck? No. Not yet.

 

[Fishbowl]

Speed skates = long straight blades for speed and acceleration
Figure skates = curved blades for ease for spins and maneuvering
Hockey skates = blend of both, curved at the front for quick turns, straight at the rear for speed and acceleration

I love teaching skaters to ski. It's a breeze direct to parallel lesson. Just build on the existing muscle memory.

One of the, many, cool things about inline skates, is how you can achieve multiple rocker patterns by adjusting wheel size, frames and even axle spacers. With a little imagination, you can turn one pair of inline skates into, "all of the above".

 

[KingGrump]

How about ice skating? Would that be similar (and even closer to skiing), and a good workout off-season?

Ice skating definitely helps. Mamie does figure skating in Central Park Usually starting in October as prep for the ski season. She have a seasonal lesson package which works out pretty well. It definitely helps her skiing. I think she skipped a year or two due to other commitments and she said she can definitely feel the difference.

 

[James]

Carve turn - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carve_turn

A carve turn is a skiing term, used to refer to a turning technique in which the ski shifts to one side or the other on its edges. When edged, the sidecut geometry causes the ski to bend into an arc, and the ski naturally follows this arc shape to produce a turning motion.

Well of course if you're defining a "skiing term" that would involve skis. No one is using skis on a hockey rink normally.
But since we're using wikipedia...

"Compulsory figures or school figures were formerly an aspect of the sport of figure skating, from which the sport derives its name. Carving specific patterns or figures into the ice was the original focus of the sport. The patterns of compulsory figures all derive from the basic figure eight."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_figures

Hockey skate blade profile can be quite complicated. It seems like in general the center section has a radius of 9 to 11 ft. Racing speed skates are flat in profile, and also are not hollow ground afaik.

Choo...choo...