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HeluvaSkier

Reality Check Writer
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Buffalo, NY
I will start this review by stating that I am no stranger to boutique ski brands... Hart, Stockli, VIST, Blossom, ZAG and Nobile are either a part of my current quiver of 35 pairs of skis or have been part of it in the past and I've spent time on many other unique and premium brands. In most cases, I can ski on anything I want, but I'm very picky about what I ski on and why... even when skis are free, if I don't care for the ski, I don't ski on it.

Anyway, I had to see what all the fuss was about with this Renoun ski... So when a fellow skier at my home mountain graciously offered to lend me his for an extended demo, I jumped at the opportunity.
:yahoo:

Here are the quick-hit first tid-bits of info (for those who have been living under a rock I've listed the ski specs):
  • Dimensions: 136-90-124
  • Length: 180cm
  • Radius: 16m
  • Construction: Sandwich... how all the good stuff is made
  • Price: :eek: $1,399
  • Conditions: wet packed powder, lumpy and bumpy slush and eastern ice
  • Skis I would compared it to: Fischer Pro MTN 86, Head Monster 88, Blossom Cross Wind, Kastle MX89
Construction:
This is a really well-made ski. Those who are familiar with race stock product will notice a lot of similarity between these skis and a typical hand-made race ski. The flex pattern, while stiff, it is not harsh. The flex is very progressive, as-in, it doesn't feel stiff at first, but as you bend it more, the stiffer it feels. Those who ski a lot of race product, or other high-end brands, will recognize the progressive-flex quality, which is commonplace among skis of this caliber of craftsmanship. I think Renoun has branded it, but that's just how good skis should perform (IMO). The ski has a lot of camber as modern skis go and gives a nice pop at release... The camber also seems to help give the ski its glued-to-the-snow feel. That same damp, glued-to-the-snow feel could be described by skiers who are not as strong as heavy or sluggish... but this is an expert ski and it wants to go... especially in its longest length. I pushed them pretty hard in a few runs just to see what the ski would hold up to in an arc, and I did get them to blow out of a few turns (meaning they ran out of either torsional stiffness or edge hold, or both, so I did find the ski's limitations)... but for a 90mm ski, that's really a nit-pick, so I won't dwell on it. I think a lot of the snow feel the ski provides has to do with the melamine (or similar material) sidewalls they are using... This is very rare for a free ride ski (most that are this wide use some form of P-Tex or plastic-like material) and is usually reserved for high end carving skis and race skis. I think I've only ever seen that type of sidewall on Stockli's of similar width.

My only complaint about the construction is the base... they are slow and seemed to burn easily - certainly not the same quality base material I get on my race skis, what comes on Stocklis or Blossom-made skis (even Fischer's MTN for that matter). Also, the grind is average... typical structure, but it looks like it was done either too fast, or on a machine with a worn out stone... Normally, I'd overlook this, but for a $1,400 ski I was left feeling disappointed. That said, the base was flat and the 1 degree base bevels felt spot-on (the owner had the sides set at 2 so I cannot comment on the out-of-box tune).

How they ski:
Before I dive into what I thought of the ski, I'll explain something about the dimensions of the ski. The dimensions are 136-90-124 for a 16m radius in 180cm. The recommended mounting point is really far forward on the ski. So let’s break it down: we have a low taper-angle side cut ski (only 12mm difference between the tip and tail) with a very far forward mounting position…

The result is a ski that likes to be skied from the center to the back. It rewards skiers who do not stand forward over their skis. The result is a ski with a tail that feels hooky and grabby and that struggles to release from a turn like a true expert ski. On steep trails at speed when sliced into arcs that deviated significantly from the fall line, the tail would hang on for too long, creating a hooky release... over turning when the ski is supposed to be done turning. I eventually settled on a mounting point somewhere around 2cm back from the recommended point, but that did not alter how the ski wanted to be skied (e.g. not from the front).

The ski was fun to ski on, despite it not rewarding what I consider to be good skiing. They hold a powerful edge and have a ton of energy (sadly a lot of it gets zapped at release by the damn tail). The skis (like I mentioned above) so like to go fast... at slow speeds they are a little sluggish, but once some momentum is built there is a ton of power and energy in what feels like a very damp, smooth ride. In more variable conditions the tips plowed through the slush and manky snow, but the tails did hang up... something I think will be more pronounced when I get them into actual moguls (I have them for another two weeks).

My verdict on this ski:
Renoun used construction quality normally reserved for hand-made race skis and put it into a shape that would blow the minds of the general population of skiers. I give them kudos for that. However, in doing so, the shape of the ski left me underwhelmed, disappointed and wishing they hadn't handicapped the performance of the ski... It is like they took a thoroughbred race horse out of the stable, but instead of letting it run, they have it doing trail rides and towing a hay wagon for tourists. Because the ski is so well-made and the internals so well thought-out, the performance envelope would be HUGE, if they shaved 5-10mm of width off the tail of the ski [and perhaps offered a size up... or maybe we are talking about a different ski now]. Either way, Renoun has the chops to build a ski like that... they just... didn't. To me, it feels like the first draft of a ski that if built with the right dimensions could have almost no limitations to its performance and still be able to blow the minds of the tourists. The only problem if Renoun did that is that I'd then have to buy a pair, because that ski would be truly bad-ass.

So, I came away knowing exactly why everyone raves about this ski... It construction and attention to detail that skis for the masses never see. For most skiers on this ski, it probably is one-of, if not THE best ski they have ever skied on. In terms of quality it is a step above most all-mountain skis I've been on with the exception of maybe Blossom. It is well-made with dimensions that any weekend warrior can hop on and feel like a hero. A bad ski? Not even close... most skiers I know would be blown away by the ski, because of how they would ski it. Unfortunately it isn't for me.

Video clips of a few of the runs I took:

As a final side-note... here is a list of skis I have parted ways with or not liked due to this same issue with too-wide of a tail (so these are in good company I'd say):
  • Kastle RX12
  • Kastle FX95
  • Rossignol CX80
  • Fischer Motive 95 (x2)
  • Salomon Sentinel
  • Elan SLX WC
  • Nordica Dobermann GSR (x2)
  • Elan SLC
  • Rossignol Hero SL FIS (x3-4)
  • Nordica Enforcer 93
  • I'm sure there are more, but I can't remember them all right now...
 
Last edited:

markojp

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Play around with the binding position a bit and see what happens. Should be interesting.
 

Philpug

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A very fair unbiased review. I would be interested in where you mount point was. I don't have the numbers in front of me to where it should be on the 180 but I know it is way back from where the original mount point is. I will agree the base material is the weak link and I have had that discussion with Cyrus. I am glad you got on them.
 
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HeluvaSkier

HeluvaSkier

Reality Check Writer
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Buffalo, NY
I checked the mounting point this morning and it is about 2cm back (perhaps a bit less). I moved them to around 3 (which is as far as the demo track will go) and since I have them for a few weeks will ski them again. Having skied on skis like this before, I am certain the mount won't change how the ski releases, but should that change I'll report back.
 

Philpug

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I checked the mounting point this morning and it is about 2cm back (perhaps a bit less). I moved them to around 3 (which is as far as the demo track will go) and since I have them for a few weeks will ski them again. Having skied on skis like this before, I am certain the mount won't change how the ski releases, but should that change I'll report back.
Measure it from the tail please.
 

Alexzn

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Great to hear your take (and your skiing is always awesome to watch). The wide tail point is very interesting. Was most of your testing done on groomers so far? I probably don’t ski with the same energy and I don’t have the same amount upper lower body separation as you do, but I always felt that a decently wide and strong tail helps a lot off-piste (at least in Tahoe) and I disliked surfboard shape skis off the groomers. It’s also interesting that you disliked my two favorite skis from the last few seasons: FX95 and Enforcer 93, so the skiing style and conditions do matter. Thanks again for the review, super-informative. I always learn more from the critical reviews.
 
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HeluvaSkier

HeluvaSkier

Reality Check Writer
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@Alexzn, Thanks for the comments.

Most of my testing was on groomers with a bit in some wet manky nasty crud-like 3-D snow... The un-groomed stuff had been rained on, and some nasty dirt and rocks were showing... Despite the snow not being much fun to ski, I didn't want to wreck my buddies $1,400 pair of skis. The tail still hung up though. I ski off-piste pretty similar to how I ski on-piste, so that is certainly a factor in my experience. Recall, I'm a Fischer guy, but that I ditched two pairs of the Motive 95 (one of the best, well-liked 95-waist skis of recent history) for the same reason. It is a great ski, but I didn't 'love' it. I do love the new MTN, which is almost the same ski as the Motive, with 5mm more width in the tip... go figure.

All that said, I think my experience plays into what @Philpug says frequently... something along the lines of "there aren't many bad skis, but there are a lot of wrong skis." For how I ski, this isn't the right ski, but it is obviously the right ski for a lot of people based on how they ski. Given that you like a lot of the skis that I gravitate away from, probably indicates we ski differently... and based on this review, I'd wager there is a good chance you'd fall in love with the Z-90.

Looking at my list of skis that I ski regularly (below)... there isn't a single one that shares a similar shape with the Z-90 and I don't think that is a coincidence.

Fischer RC4 WC SL Medium 165
Fischer RC4 WC SL Stiff 165
Fischer RC4 WC GS Master 191
Fischer RC4 WC SL Stiff 165
Fischer RC4 WC RC Pro 185
Fischer RC4 WC RC Pro 175
Fischer RC4 WC SL Medium 165
Fischer RC4 WC SL Stiff 165
Fischer RC4 WC GS Master Stiff 188
Fischer MTN 95 186
Fischer MTN 95 178
Head Monster 98 184
Blossom White Out 176
Blossom White Out 182
Blossom Wind Shear 180
Blossom Snoras 180
Blossom White Out 176
Nobile SL 165
ZAG Z-One 184
Fischer RC4 WC SL Medium 165
Fischer Progressor 9+ 175
Head GTO 200
Head GTO 180
Fischer RC4 WC SL Stiff 165
 

PTskier

Been goin' downhill for years....
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Two of my group returned 174 Z-90s. None of us ski with the skill of Heluva, but the three of us who tried the skis (we passed them around) were underwhelmed. Great on straight fast runs--superb damping. Otherwise, meh. Just not a lot of fun. 2015 Head Supershape i.Rally are more fun. 2017 Stöckli Laser AX are much more fun--two of us switched from being Z-90 owners to AX owners. These comparisons were in back to back runs on the same trail just a few minutes apart. A different day in deep wet Cascade Concrete the Z-90 were difficult to ski in that glop, and given the dimensions were expected to handle the conditions better.

One of the Z-90 had a 3" section of the base edge that was missed by the grinder. Renoun paid for a tune, but.... Another Z-90 had a kink in the edge material before the skis were fabricated. The shop that mounted the bindings spotted this and phoned Renoun directly. That pair was replaced, but....

I wish the Renoun crew well. I don't think they're where they need to be yet.
 

BGreen

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Thank you for the highly considered and honest review, but I pretty much stopped reading here:
The result is a ski that likes to be skied from the center to the back. ... The result is a ski with a tail that feels hooky and grabby and that struggles to release from a turn .... On steep trails at speed when sliced into arcs that deviated significantly from the fall line, the tail would hang on for too long, creating a hooky release... over turning when the ski is supposed to be done turning.

I’m sorry, but that sounds terrifying at worst and annoying it best. That’s a very impressive list of skis you have. I’d love to try some soft/medium flex Fischers. FWIW on the Nordica GS, you can temper the tail hookiness with tuning.
 
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HeluvaSkier

HeluvaSkier

Reality Check Writer
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Buffalo, NY
Do one for Sandwich Tech's 88. pls.

I did one at EpicSki years ago, sadly it was lost when they shut down... I'd be hesitant to try and do it from memory at risk of incorrectly characterizing the ski. I do recall liking it a lot though... my only gripe was that the wooden sidewalls made for a 'noisy' un-dampened ride. Anyone know how to look things up in the interweb archives? Paging @razie
 

cantunamunch

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Thanks, I was mostly interested wrt. the shape/taper factor. I've encountered "too much tail" less often than you - but it is something I despised when I found it.
 

razie

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Can't find it... even the residuals from epic are gone from google and the internet archives don't search by content - you have to know the link you're looking for.... weird, huh?

... heh, so I have a couple of wide tailed skis, eh?

:(

...what does that do, again? Annoys @cantunamunch (...reminds me... I'll be on the escarpment a fair bit this month. Coffee?)?
:beercheer:
 

Uncle-A

In the words of Paul Simon "You can call me Al"
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I checked the mounting point this morning and it is about 2cm back (perhaps a bit less). I moved them to around 3 (which is as far as the demo track will go) and since I have them for a few weeks will ski them again. Having skied on skis like this before, I am certain the mount won't change how the ski releases, but should that change I'll report back.
I would be interested to read your take on the Z 77's if you ever get the chance. I do not think I would ever own a Z 90 but the Z 77's would be an option for me in the east.
 

flbufl

Getting on the lift
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Jan 31, 2017
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In the 85-90mm waist width ranges and based on what I think you would like, you may want to try the Black Crow Orb (122-91-109) and Vist Ottanta7 (123-87-110, from the same mold of Blossom Cardio, but with 2 thin layers of titanal!).

I own both. They ski very differently, but I like them both.

@Alexzn, Thanks for the comments.

Most of my testing was on groomers with a bit in some wet manky nasty crud-like 3-D snow... The un-groomed stuff had been rained on, and some nasty dirt and rocks were showing... Despite the snow not being much fun to ski, I didn't want to wreck my buddies $1,400 pair of skis. The tail still hung up though. I ski off-piste pretty similar to how I ski on-piste, so that is certainly a factor in my experience. Recall, I'm a Fischer guy, but that I ditched two pairs of the Motive 95 (one of the best, well-liked 95-waist skis of recent history) for the same reason. It is a great ski, but I didn't 'love' it. I do love the new MTN, which is almost the same ski as the Motive, with 5mm more width in the tip... go figure.

All that said, I think my experience plays into what @Philpug says frequently... something along the lines of "there aren't many bad skis, but there are a lot of wrong skis." For how I ski, this isn't the right ski, but it is obviously the right ski for a lot of people based on how they ski. Given that you like a lot of the skis that I gravitate away from, probably indicates we ski differently... and based on this review, I'd wager there is a good chance you'd fall in love with the Z-90.

Looking at my list of skis that I ski regularly (below)... there isn't a single one that shares a similar shape with the Z-90 and I don't think that is a coincidence.

Fischer RC4 WC SL Medium 165
Fischer RC4 WC SL Stiff 165
Fischer RC4 WC GS Master 191
Fischer RC4 WC SL Stiff 165
Fischer RC4 WC RC Pro 185
Fischer RC4 WC RC Pro 175
Fischer RC4 WC SL Medium 165
Fischer RC4 WC SL Stiff 165
Fischer RC4 WC GS Master Stiff 188
Fischer MTN 95 186
Fischer MTN 95 178
Head Monster 98 184
Blossom White Out 176
Blossom White Out 182
Blossom Wind Shear 180
Blossom Snoras 180
Blossom White Out 176
Nobile SL 165
ZAG Z-One 184
Fischer RC4 WC SL Medium 165
Fischer Progressor 9+ 175
Head GTO 200
Head GTO 180
Fischer RC4 WC SL Stiff 165
 
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HeluvaSkier

HeluvaSkier

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Buffalo, NY
@Philpug
Recommended Line = 795mm
Sunday's Test = 780mm
Next Weekend's Test = 770mm

I'm in a 285mm boot, so my BoF is considerably further back than where a normal adult sized boot would be when mounted the same distance back.
 

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