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The Google Office or How I Eliminated 50% of our Office Space

Nancy Hummel

Ski more, talk less.
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I have a solid rule to NOT log in or look at my emails or other work related things after logging off at 4:30 or 5 each day and not to log back in before 8 unless I remember something very important that I promised and didn't finish. I demand a solid barrier between work and personal home life. It's tempting to try to get ahead and put in extra hours while working from home... checking back in after dinner to work with west coasters or across the pond... but then the stakeholders get accustomed to expecting things done quicker and you're working more and more to the detriment of your family life.

I get that people accessible and engaged with the work team 24/7 get paid more and promoted more, but life's short. I'd rather have more time and less money than all the tea in China but no time to enjoy it.

As with Coskigirl, the lines are blurred for me. I take breaks at work and use Facebook, Pugski and other non work related sites so I don't feel bad about answering email outside of 9-5 hours. I feel that is only fair.
 

surfsnowgirl

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I work for a tax firm for a giant hedge fund and we can all do our jobs from home but the big guys like us here for face time which is fine. We also have designated places to sit, albeit tiny but I have somewhere that's mine and I like that. I work on a database all day long which can be tedious so I feel no guilt hopping on facebook or pugski for a second here and there. I balance it all out by they give me a work phone and I'll reply back to emails at night or the weekend. I personally wouldn't mind working from home a day or two a week but I don't mind going into the office either, I think I'm more productive. They also provide us a kitchen full of snacks and lunch every day and 4 weeks vacation a year so I'll come into the office every day with a smile.
 

crgildart

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As with Coskigirl, the lines are blurred for me. I take breaks at work and use Facebook, Pugski and other non work related sites so I don't feel bad about answering email outside of 9-5 hours. I feel that is only fair.
Do you really believe before social media folks at work didn't do a few non work related things like chatting in the break room or a quick call to the staff at their kids' school? I've got to have separate time devoted to work versus home and family. Half the people I know who divorced felt their spouse spent too much off work time paying more attention to work than the spouse. If I were single I might feel differently, but probably not. My time is MY time. Work time is mostly work time.. but per state and federal regs we get two 15 minute breaks ON THE CLOCK in addition to the signed out meal time each 8 hours. I'm 100% available every minute I'm logged in to the work place or on site.. even those 15 minute breaks I'm usually within earshot of the virtual workplace.. I just consider the chatting part for those 15 minute breaks.. and still available to jump when they say jump. However, not available after hours during family and personal time. If it's a HUGE emergency only I can help resolve I might answer the message you left, but not always immediately. They'd have to pay me 3 times what I'm making to be available 40 hours to become available another 10 hours a week. I might die poor but I'll die being more devoted to family and friends than any paid gig..
 

surfsnowgirl

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I'm all about quality of life so this is the first time I've had a work cell and a personal cell, complete separation when I want. In jobs past I'd just put my work email on my personal cell and it gets to be too much. Now I can just leave my work phone behind if I want a break or dammit it's saturday I don't care about work and so on. Working out great for me.
 

coskigirl

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Do you really believe before social media folks at work didn't do a few non work related things like chatting in the break room or a quick call to the staff at their kids' school? I've got to have separate time devoted to work versus home and family. Half the people I know who divorced felt their spouse spent too much off work time paying more attention to work than the spouse. If I were single I might feel differently, but probably not. My time is MY time. Work time is mostly work time.. but per state and federal regs we get two 15 minute breaks ON THE CLOCK in addition to the signed out meal time each 8 hours. I'm 100% available every minute I'm logged in to the work place or on site.. even those 15 minute breaks I'm usually within earshot of the virtual workplace.. I just consider the chatting part for those 15 minute breaks.. and still available to jump when they say jump. However, not available after hours during family and personal time. If it's a HUGE emergency only I can help resolve I might answer the message you left, but not always immediately. They'd have to pay me 3 times what I'm making to be available 40 hours to become available another 10 hours a week. I might die poor but I'll die being more devoted to family and friends than any paid gig..

Where did I say that people didn't do non-work things before social media? :huh:
 

crgildart

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Where did I say that people didn't do non-work things before social media? :huh:
I was responding to Nancy saying she felt obligated to work beyond 9-5 because she does non work stuff "like facebook" during 9-5.
 

Core2

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I've worked remotely, had dedicated cubes, had the ability to work remotely as needed, open floor plans, non open floor plans. What works best is giving people options to allow them to work in a way that best fits their style. IT guys seem to do just fine working over video chats and IM, honestly this is more effective sometimes then pulling them out of a project to have a meeting that is mostly fluff. Business people, where relationships and face time are driving the work, those are much better in person. You can often avoid days worth of e-mails in a quick face to face meeting. Our failing is saying one way is better and fits everyone because it doesn't. We also need to redefine the work day and what "work" really is. I can get my job done in a couple hours per day and the rest of the day I am sitting here on Pugski or Reddit. Why we still use this 40 hour system when the vast majority of people are effective enough to do what they are being asked to do in much less time is beyond me.
 
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TS
scott43

scott43

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Our failing is saying one way is better and fits everyone because it doesn't.
I personally believe this more than anything. I don't think it's worthwhile to impose systems on people who can't work that way. And that's the push-back I expect. Totally agree about meetings and IM...for what I do, a 30min or 60min meeting is impossible to replace..for me. IM was great when I was doing more technical work but that's not everyone's deal.
 

crgildart

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Why we still use this 40 hour system when the vast majority of people are effective enough to do what they are being asked to do in much less time is beyond me.

The actual work also takes me less than 40 hours, significantly less, most of the time. The time spent not actually building and refining the work product is to be available, fully available to support the product/reports, meet with the stakeholders, often at the drop of a hat, answer questions, and apply that feedback to future reporting needs. Yes, I spend half of that free time twiddling my thumbs waiting for calls and meeting requests that don't always materialize. But, I'm paid to be there since often that post delivery support is needed. I'm not paid to do it beyond normal working hours. I'm non exempt and paid by the hour.. Paid to be available even if I'm twiddling my thumbs. I don't feel obligated to give back more just because some of the paid time wasn't utilized by my employer.

Here's another angle on this. Wife's an HR guro. It's actually illegal and violates quite a few state and federal regs for non exempt hourly employees or contractors to give that little (or lot of) extra work here and there after hours. It creates an atmosphere where other employees feel they also have to give that little (or lots) of extra to remain top of mind for raises and promotions or worse, to not be the person(s) cut when layoffs come around. It's an anti competitive practice to work off the books for your employer to give yourself an edge over other employees who may not be able to or just don't want to give free labor to the company or client. If a company gets documented for favoring employees or contractors who work extra time off the books/clock over those who don't it's a form of modern day slavery.. It's actually pretty common and happens just about everywhere I've ever worked. Something to think about when considering whether or not to report/document out of ordinary business hours work done.

Like Scott said, it depends on the role and position, but if you are paid hourly and report time those extra hours worked but not reported as out of regular business hours are actually illegal if they really are extra hours you aren't getting formally compensated for. If you're exempt/management salary employee not reporting any work hours your a55 belongs to them 24/7 like it or not. I've been in those roles... while single. Haven't missed it a bit ...
 

JeffB

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Perhaps it depends on industry and position, but in my industry, there is no such thing as logged off or not present. I'm an exempt K-1 employee/owner and can honestly say that I do not recall ever being completely unconnected, even when I was W-2 and at the bottom of the totem pole. And once Citrix, blackberries, and then the true smart phones came along, it's only become more difficult to unplug. Now it's virtual offices and VDI cloud computing, along with handheld devices many times more powerful than my first work computer. I used to call my voicemail from a pay phone and check my messages, and now all my work voicemails are emails with WAV attachments.

Or perhaps it's easy to unplug, depending on how you look at it. It doesn't matter where I am - I can take a call, answer a few emails, and go back to whatever it is I am doing at the beach, or on a ski vacation, or wherever.

It's a blessing and a curse. I can go, but I'm never gone. On balance, I've rationalized that it's better than not going. And as often as not, the ability to check in and see that everything is fine and that I am not needed brings a feeling of relief and better relaxation. In return, the nagging feeling every couple of hours that compels me to look at the phone or iPad or open up the laptop can suck.

I expect my exempt employees to do likewise. I don't care where they are, but when I need them, I expect an answer within a reasonable time, barring issues like honeymoons and maternity leave. That doesn't mean I need emailed work product at 10:30pm on a Saturday. But if there is a big issue or important client matter or some other issue that I inquire about at 7pm on a Friday and I don't have an answer until 830 am on Monday, heads may roll.

Bottom line, if I'm doing it, they can too, or they can go work somewhere else. And I do my very best to not ask of them anything I would not do myself. As one example, I worked all day on Labor Day this year because I was not going to mess up two employees' vacations with spouses and families, so I did it all by myself and met my family for dinner later. In return, I expect similar sacrifice as the need may present itself.

I think the people I hire like the autonomy and the lack of "facetime" expectation. But with that autonomy and freedom comes responsibility. Some can handle it and some cannot.

I'm ok with that.
 

Nancy Hummel

Ski more, talk less.
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The actual work also takes me less than 40 hours, significantly less, most of the time. The time spent not actually building and refining the work product is to be available, fully available to support the product/reports, meet with the stakeholders, often at the drop of a hat, answer questions, and apply that feedback to future reporting needs. Yes, I spend half of that free time twiddling my thumbs waiting for calls and meeting requests that don't always materialize. But, I'm paid to be there since often that post delivery support is needed. I'm not paid to do it beyond normal working hours. I'm non exempt and paid by the hour.. Paid to be available even if I'm twiddling my thumbs. I don't feel obligated to give back more just because some of the paid time wasn't utilized by my employer.

Here's another angle on this. Wife's an HR guro. It's actually illegal and violates quite a few state and federal regs for non exempt hourly employees or contractors to give that little (or lot of) extra work here and there after hours. It creates an atmosphere where other employees feel they also have to give that little (or lots) of extra to remain top of mind for raises and promotions or worse, to not be the person(s) cut when layoffs come around. It's an anti competitive practice to work off the books for your employer to give yourself an edge over other employees who may not be able to or just don't want to give free labor to the company or client. If a company gets documented for favoring employees or contractors who work extra time off the books/clock over those who don't it's a form of modern day slavery.. It's actually pretty common and happens just about everywhere I've ever worked. Something to think about when considering whether or not to report/document out of ordinary business hours work done.

Like Scott said, it depends on the role and position, but if you are paid hourly and report time those extra hours worked but not reported as out of regular business hours are actually illegal if they really are extra hours you aren't getting formally compensated for. If you're exempt/management salary employee not reporting any work hours your a55 belongs to them 24/7 like it or not. I've been in those roles... while single. Haven't missed it a bit ...

Yes, if you are non exempt and paid by the hour, then you should get paid for every minute you work and have no obligation to work outside of your scheduled hours.
 

crgildart

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Perhaps it depends on industry and position, but in my industry, there is no such thing as logged off or not present. I'm an exempt K-1 employee/owner and can honestly say that I do not recall ever being completely unconnected, even when I was W-2 and at the bottom of the totem pole.

There is at least twice a year I'm camping and hiking with family or scout troop where there is ZERO cell coverage, no hotel, just a week totally "unconnected". There are some ski resorts where the ski in ski out house didn't have wifi/cable and the resort had horrible or non existent cell coverage.

I guess you can't go those places at all?

I actually get it. I was salaried management all through my 20s and 30s totally connected with the exception of a few holidays everyone had off for a day here and there. I don't miss it. I wouldn't take triple my current pay to go back to that. I want to enjoy my free time even if I have less money to spend. Totally "free" free time is priceless..
 

JeffB

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There is at least twice a year I'm camping and hiking with family or scout troop where there is ZERO cell coverage, no hotel, just a week totally "unconnected". There are some ski resorts where the ski in ski out house didn't have wifi/cable and the resort had horrible or non existent cell coverage.

I guess you can't go those places at all?

I actually get it. I was salaried management all through my 20s and 30s totally connected with the exception of a few holidays everyone had off for a day here and there. I don't miss it. I wouldn't take triple my current pay to go back to that. I want to enjoy my free time even if I have less money to spend. Totally "free" free time is priceless..

I "can." There are places in Sumpter, Pisgah, and Chattahoochee national forests that we hike and camp and that have no service. I just drive out once or twice per day to check on things. And when we travel internationally, I buy data plans and otherwise show fealty to my digital leash.

I'm not suggesting that my choices are normal or even healthy. Like I said, it's a blessing and a curse. And I freely acknowledge that some of it is comprised of self-imposed "rules."

At this point in my life, I technically work for myself. But I have a wife, 3 kids, 4 business partners, 48 other employees, and their spouses and children. And I'm consumed with the reality that they all are expecting the next check to clear the bank, the health insurance premium to be paid, and the 401k to be funded, among other things.

Can I completely unplug for a couple weeks - digital detox - and have everything be ok? Most likely, yes. And I probably should. But I know myself and I know that the "not knowing" would drive me insane. I would be miserable and I would make everyone around me miserable. And maybe that says more about me than the original intent of this thread - flex office space and flex time. Sorry for the thread jack.

The last time I was truly off the grid for an extended period of time was NOLs in summer of 1996. I miss it so badly. But I don't think I have the capacity to do it anymore.

It's a blessing and a curse.
 

crgildart

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At this point in my life, I technically work for myself. But I have a wife, 3 kids, 4 business partners, 48 other employees, and their spouses and children. And I'm consumed with the reality that they all are expecting the next check to clear the bank, the health insurance premium to be paid, and the 401k to be funded, among other things.

Probably at least 50% of full time employed people are slaves to their benefits and healthcare needs more than even the money itself. We're in that boat with pre existing conditions. Can't ever consider both quitting or risking getting canned without the real possibility we might never get decent healthcare coverage ever again now.

My wife does the healthcare and 401K for a HUGE global company. She stays in the belly of the beast to keep us/her employed somewhere with good benefits.. getting harder and harder to find jobs with good benefits these days.. And, being the only person who can do many of the tasks that keep the insurance , HSA accounts, and 401K running it's way harder for her to unplug than it is for me. She doesn't go to the more remote ski houses. We took a week off to do Yellowstone.. another place you'd be in trouble trying to check in regularly,, and she still hasn't gotten totally caught back up.. that was mid June. She only makes slightly more than I do but works 10-15 more hours per week on average. My hourly rate is decent so I guess I can afford to be picky there.

If you're checking in even once a day that's not unplugged at all. Lots of people are in the same boat as you.. with a nice boat, bigger house payment, college funds, etc. But, a heads up that the places we usually have the Mid Atlantic Gatherings don't have good cell coverage within an hour of the resort. You'd have to drive pretty far to check in twice a day. Sometimes the house will have wifi. Lodge usually has some wifi but it is sketchy..
 

raytseng

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i hear all the anecdotes about work stealing personal time, but if done properly it should go both ways, and for example you should be able to steal the day from work. for example have 4day ski weekends every weekend during ski season

https://www.unofficialnetworks.com/...o-open-heavenly-at-the-top-of-the-tram-a/amp/

i definitely know some guys that do feel the freedom to approach work this way and just take a few calls on the slopes or from hawaii or wherever, take a couple hours in the evening but for the most part they are taking the day as theirs not work.
 

Core2

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i hear all the anecdotes about work stealing personal time, but if done properly it should go both ways, and for example you should be able to steal the day from work. for example have 4day ski weekends every weekend during ski season

https://www.unofficialnetworks.com/...o-open-heavenly-at-the-top-of-the-tram-a/amp/

i definitely know some guys that do feel the freedom to approach work this way and just take a few calls on the slopes or from hawaii or wherever, take a couple hours in the evening but for the most part they are taking the day as theirs not work.

I'm a time thief and I don't have any regrets. Those stolen days on the hill are some of my best memories. You can always get another job, always get more money but you can't always get more of those days. I think if you are on top of your work there is no reason why you shouldn't steal time when you can.
 

crgildart

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i definitely know some guys that do feel the freedom to approach work this way and just take a few calls on the slopes or from hawaii or wherever, take a couple hours in the evening but for the most part they are taking the day as theirs not work.

I'm not able to FULLY enjoy a weekend or PTOFF if there is an obligation to check in or resolve something bouncing around the back of my head while doing things I do specifically to NOT work and NOT even think about work.

My father worked 6-7 days a week from the time I was born until after I graduated from college. He was NEVER 100% present for any family vacation. Never attended any of my high school soccer games.. He did make it to some family weddings and funerals. He did provide very well for my mom and us kids financially, but only an occasional weekend half day recreationally where he could. We went fishing or played golf some weekend days. I very much enjoyed that but really wish I had more time with him before he got too old to do that kind of fun stuff together. I'd trade the college ride for 100 more random days with him back in my grade school and teen days knowing what I know now. That's why I'm taking a pay cut to be more connected with my kids and wife while I can still keep up with them.

Perhaps if I had another job, dream job I enjoyed doing for fun I'd not set such solid boundaries between work and family time.
 

va_deb

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Virginia / DC Area
I personally believe this more than anything. I don't think it's worthwhile to impose systems on people who can't work that way. And that's the push-back I expect. Totally agree about meetings and IM...for what I do, a 30min or 60min meeting is impossible to replace..for me. IM was great when I was doing more technical work but that's not everyone's deal.

Agree on both fronts. There are several interdependencies: your role and the work you do, company culture and expectations, and how you naturally function best in terms of work environment. A handful of colleagues from current and past jobs have acknowledged that they aren't cut out to work from home, and they prefer to come to the office.

I also have friends who have transitioned to 100% teleworking and they haven't missed a beat.
 

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