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Tesla Model ≡

Bravosarah

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Has anyone else pre-ordered?

Did you buy sight unseen, or wait until after the reveal? What do you think of the design, performance targets and hype?

What we know to date:

- It's sexy as hell
- 215 miles/ charge (~350km)
- 5* safety rating in all categories
- Autopilot Safety features are standard (full auto will be an option)
- RWD, AWD will be an option
- Supercharging capable (will probably be an option)
- 232,000 people pre-ordered one in the first 2 days!

Attached is a photo of a few people camped out overnight in Toronto. I'm second from the left.
 

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Philpug

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I am excited for it. I think it is real cool.
 

x10003q

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Has anyone else pre-ordered?

Did you buy sight unseen, or wait until after the reveal? What do you think of the design, performance targets and hype?

What we know to date:.
Not exactly

- It's sexy as hell.
If you like a cross between a Ford Fusion and a Hyundi Elantra

- 215 miles/ charge (~350km).
If you live in a flat place were the temperature is always 68 degrees F and the speed limit is 55mph

- 5* safety rating in all categories.
The car does not exist, so no stars yet

- Autopilot Safety features are standard (full auto will be an option).
Don't hold your breath

-RWD, AWD will be an option.
No need for AWD since these things will have a much lower range in the cold

- Supercharging capable (will probably be an option).
Is it really something to crow about that it works at a Tesla supercharger?

- 232,000 people pre-ordered one in the first 2 days!.
A fool and his money are soon parted. Tesla has big money issues.

Attached is a photo of a few people camped out overnight in Toronto. I'm second from the left.
Real range in the 10 month Canadian winter- 100 KM

:D
 

RachelV

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I'm on the list. We got in line about 3 hours before the store opened and were probably in the front 20% of the line at the Denver store.

It's not for everyone, but this is absolutely a huge step forward for EVs and I'm psyched to see what other kind of changes it helps bring about. I haaaaaate hate hate people who find little things to hate on -- so don't buy it! It's not as if we should stop making progress because we can't make 100% of the needed progress in one huge step. I personally I am psyched to throw some solar panels on my roof and never buy gas again. A model 3 with AWD and snow tires will get me back and forth to Summit County (and the superchargers in Silverthrone) just fiiiiine.
 

Philpug

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I'm on the list. We got in line about 3 hours before the store opened and were probably in the front 20% of the line at the Denver store.

It's not for everyone, but this is absolutely a huge step forward for EVs and I'm psyched to see what other kind of changes it helps bring about. I haaaaaate hate hate people who find little things to hate on -- so don't buy it! It's not as if we should stop making progress because we can't make 100% of the needed progress in one huge step. I personally I am psyched to throw some solar panels on my roof and never buy gas again. A model 3 with AWD and snow tires will get me back and forth to Summit County (and the superchargers in Silverthrone) just fiiiiine.
THATS AWESOME! Keep us posted on all of the progression. :popcorn:
 
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TS
Bravosarah

Bravosarah

You can call me Sarah :)
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I'm on the list. We got in line about 3 hours before the store opened and were probably in the front 20% of the line at the Denver store.

It's not for everyone, but this is absolutely a huge step forward for EVs and I'm psyched to see what other kind of changes it helps bring about. I haaaaaate hate hate people who find little things to hate on -- so don't buy it! It's not as if we should stop making progress because we can't make 100% of the needed progress in one huge step. I personally I am psyched to throw some solar panels on my roof and never buy gas again. A model 3 with AWD and snow tires will get me back and forth to Summit County (and the superchargers in Silverthrone) just fiiiiine.


Niiice! Keep me posted. Deliveries are west to east, so you'll get yours first.

Tesla treated us great, they gave us campers a canopy, coffees and let us use the washroom. (they were working all night, getting ready) Our store has superchargers, so we has Model S people stopped and chatted with us all night as they charged. One guy stayed for over 3 hours just answering our questions!

Elon Musk was on twitter answering questions after the unveiling too. Looks good for customer service!

I'm in for the supercharger option, and awd. But who knows what Elon has up his sleeve for part 2. Rumor has it, he'll reveal the Model Y and it will have falcon wing doors!
 

Alexzn

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By the time the car will be available to the public and after Tesla burns through the early adopters, model 3 will be a known commodity. Its not clear what the 35K base price will buy you and what a reasonably optioned car will be. I doubt it is a Model S for 50% less money, they clearly made some significant compromises to get to this price point. But it is clearly a huge step towards making EVs mainstream. the intriguing question is what the other companies (like BMW, GM, or Ford) will do about it. Unlike the Model S, this is a challenge they cannot afford to ignore (so far, it seems like every 3-series sedan buyer is lusting over the Model 3). So I predict that at least BMW will put our an electric sports sedan by the time the Model3 is on the streets. And that would be an interesting question of what BMW engineers can do if they work with the same design constraints as tesla (the current i3 car is clearly not that answer).
 

tball

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^^^ @Alexzn touches why I'm really excited about the Tesla 3: it's not aimed at the Prius or Volt.... but the BMW 3 series! That class of cars is already awesome and will only get better with the competition from Tesla. It will fun to watch it play out.

If Tesla pulls it off I could see owning a Model 3 as a replacement for my G35. Its primary role is commuting, running around town and horsepower based entertainment. Sounds like the Model 3 could do all that and add efficiency and zero right foot guilt. I'll take mine with max HP and RWD, please. That and a big V8 Toyota 4x4 (which one TBD) would be an ideal automotive quiver for me.

Tesla needs to figure out reliability before I'm really interested, though. CR rates the reliability of the 2015 Model S as poor. I'll be a late adopter if I buy a Model 3, and only if they do much better with reliability.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla-reliability-doesnt-match-its-high-performance/
 
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TS
Bravosarah

Bravosarah

You can call me Sarah :)
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^^^ @Alexzn
Tesla needs to figure out reliability before I'm really interested, though. CR rates the reliability of the 2015 Model S as poor. I'll be a late adopter if I buy a Model 3, and only if they do much better with reliability.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla-reliability-doesnt-match-its-high-performance/

All fixed under warranty with loaner cars. Idk, but I'm pretty sceptical about how they measure reliability. GM's ignition switch killed 124 people, and they have a better reliability rating?

CR says 97% of Tesla owners would buy a Tesla again, no other car company comes close to that.

I spoke to a lot of Model S owners before deciding to buy and I heard some amazing customer service stories. After the unveiling Elon Musk was on Twitter for hours answering questions. What other CEO would do that?

I'm pretty confident I'll be getting a great car, but I'm willing to be a beta tester if necessary too. I'm certain it will make history, and March 31st 2016 was the day it did.

Join the revolution TBall! :D
 

TonyC

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We ordered our Model S90D last October and took delivery April 2. First Mammoth trip was April 10-13.
file.php


The delay from order to delivery was at our request because there was a $1000 referral credit than expired October 31 but we did not want the car until April due to our extensive ski season travels.

tball: "Tesla needs to figure out reliability before I'm really interested, though.

Bravosarah: "CR says 97% of Tesla owners would buy a Tesla again, no other car company comes close to that.
I spoke to a lot of Model S owners before deciding to buy and I heard some amazing customer service stories."


The Consumer Reports article came out the week before we ordered, but I had researched the issues thoroughly. You want to find out anything about these cars, check out this User's Forum: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/ It's an amazing resource.

I'm no stranger to being a car "beta tester" as I had the first SAAB Turbo in 1978 and it became a reliability nightmare by 1981 with engine and transmission failures plus incompetent dealer repairs and zero support from the importer.

As Bravosarah alludes, Tesla has successfully suppressed owner dissatisfaction with reliability issues by fixing problems proactively under warranty. FOr the most serious issue, the drive units, the warranty was extended from 4 year/50K miles to 8 years/unlimited miles. There is also speculation online that the AWD cars will stress the drive units less by not putting all that power through one drive unit.

The other reliability concern was the pano roof, which was redesigned in May 2015, so presumably that was an attempt to make it more wind/leak proof. The drive units have also had several redesigns. I've not taking anything for granted, but:
1) Model S has been out for 3+ years, has more features now and hopefully the odds of big problems has decreased.
2) Tesla's track record of fixing problems under warranty should mean a much less painful experience than with SAAB back in 1981 if it comes to that.
3) We financed in order to be subject to the 36-39 month resale guarantee of 50% of base purchase price + 43% of options. I view this mostly a hedge against a disruptive improvement in battery technology that will make the Model 3 exceed expectations but destroy the resale of older cars. Interestingly, the resale value of the 2012-13 "beta test" Model S is holding up extremely well, though I can't imagine why anyone who does the research would want one of those vs. the new cars given minimal price difference and obvious greater reliability/warranty risk.
 

Philpug

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I think you need to make this available to the Pugski testers for a long term review.
 

Tricia

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TonyC

Contact me at bestsnow.net
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We had another Tesla trip to Mammoth last week with 2 great ski days April 26-27: http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12136

We made it from Mammoth to Mojave 271 miles between charges on the way home. Most of the time that stop will need to be in Inyokern. There are 2 stops on the way up because of the elevation gain. Nonetheless we have done Glendale - Mammoth in 5 hours 12 minutes including the 54 minutes of charge stops.

We will likely be at Mammoth Wed-Fri next week and at least some of Memorial Day weekend.
 

TonyC

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Supercharging Tesla is a non-linear function, fast when battery is low and progressively slower if you try to fill it all the way. This data was posted into a downloadable spreadsheet on the Tesla Users Forum before I bought the car so I could work out the calculations myself for max efficiency. Charging from 30 rated miles up to 150 on a S85 takes 24 minutes. Charging from 150 - 270 (full) takes 62 minutes. Our 90D has 290 miles rated range.

Thus it makes more sense to drive fast and hit every Supercharger than to drive 60-65 for 230 miles to skip a stop. The supercharge rate does not fall below 80mph until you're about 90% full. It also makes sense to run the battery to a low level, with a secure cushion of 25-30 miles projected for the next supercharger stop, then charge to some upper mid-level range for the one after that rather than try to fill up. Thus we made the 13 minute stop in Inyokern rather than try to drive the 218 miles home to Lone Pine at slower speed. And the 41 minute stop at Lone Pine where you need to put 200+ rated miles on the battery was measured so we didn't get into that slow-charging top-off range.

Coming home to L.A. from Mammoth is essentially transparent vs. a gas car as you're going downhill and need only one stop. After a day of skiing you're going to stop for dinner anyway, and the charge you get in Inyokern (or under ideal conditions Mojave like last Wednesday) during that dinner is more than enough to get home.

The spreadsheet calculations need to take speed, altitude/gain/loss and temperature into account, info also available from another post on the Tesla Users Forum. All power consumption results on the Mammoth trips and another one to Santa Barbara wine country were within 10% of sheet calculations and most within 5%. The elapsed time of of 5 hours 12 minutes home to Mammoth on April 10 is proof that the optimal efficiency calculations paid off.

With a full charge starting off our practical Tesla travel radius from SoCal of AZ/Vegas/Reno/Tahoe/Northern CA can be achieved in marginally more travel time than in a gas car. It's also no big deal to full charge the car at your destination if it has a Supercharger like Mammoth does, or if you're in a hotel with an overnight 220 charger.

SoCal to SLC would add 3.5 hours supercharge time to the 9.5 hour drive, which is why the Tesla will not be used to drive to my Snowbird timeshare. That calculation would look better if you spent a night in Vegas and left there with a full charge. Nonetheless any CA - SLC drive is going to be lengthened appreciably vs. a gas car because you can drive 85+ past Vegas/Reno and Tesla power consumption increases 9% for every 5mph of average speed.

A stop in Reno/Tahoe with a full charge would have a similar effect on an Bay Area to SLC drive. Unless your Tahoe stop has an overnight 220 charger, the only superchargers in the Reno/Tahoe region so far are in Truckee.

The superchargers are spaced so there is no impediment to have the smaller/cheaper battery and be able to drive anywhere on the network. However, you have to charge the smaller battery closer to being full, which takes more time and adds up to 1/4 to 1/3 more time spent at the superchargers on a road trip. This is the key issue that informed our decision to go with the max rated range 290 mile 90D battery. There are some side benefits of the larger battery too, like 0-60 in 4.2 seconds.
icon_mrgreen.gif


The careful planning on road trips is offset by more convenience charging at home. I won't miss waiting in line for gas at Costco. Home charging on 220v Nema 14-50 is at rate of about 27 miles/hour. Yes you need to get that installed because 110v charging is only 3 miles/hour.

An interesting article here: http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/l ... story.html I've spent enough time in remote places in our far flung country to realize electric cars are more practical in some places than others. But in western Europe, with compact distances and sky-high gas prices, the German companies should get in the game seriously sooner rather than later.

Porsche's recent announcement indicates it takes electric cars seriously:
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...edan-will-hit-80-percent-charge-in-15-minutes However, I'm fairly sure this car will cost considerably more than Tesla Model S.
 
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pete

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I'm on the list. We got in line about 3 hours before the store opened and were probably in the front 20% of the line at the Denver store.

It's not for everyone, but this is absolutely a huge step forward for EVs and I'm psyched to see what other kind of changes it helps bring about. I haaaaaate hate hate people who find little things to hate on -- so don't buy it! It's not as if we should stop making progress because we can't make 100% of the needed progress in one huge step. I personally I am psyched to throw some solar panels on my roof and never buy gas again. A model 3 with AWD and snow tires will get me back and forth to Summit County (and the superchargers in Silverthrone) just fiiiiine.

Coming home to L.A. from Mammoth is essentially transparent vs. a gas car as you're going downhill and need only one stop. After a day of skiing you're going to stop for dinner anyway, and the charge you get in Inyokern (or under ideal conditions Mojave like last Wednesday) during that dinner is more than enough to get home.



http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...edan-will-hit-80-percent-charge-in-15-minutes However, I'm fairly sure this car will cost considerably more than Tesla Model S.

Agree that steps are the way, Don't completely agree with the "global warming" verses large cycles and our influence but then don't understand the complete dismissal and why not take steps that in the long run benefit on the whole better products with less impact.

Personally find the Volt a nice product, not as advanced as the Tesla but really has some nice technology and given one needn't stop for recharging, a good solution for those who may travel longer distances.

In terms of having to stop, Tesla, well, I feel it's a fine trade off if one plans to stop anyhow, why not? enjoy dinner and/or a break.

The $35K entry price on the Mod 3 from my reads may easily double but then this is pretty common with most any vehicle. Looked at plenty of vehicles before buying a used Ford Explorer (sorry for polluting : ( ) which base is $33K but ups over $50K loaded so .. what's new?

What kills me about Tesla is how they're so boned over by the rest of the industry. I understand some of the protection laws requiring repair and sales in the specific localities but much of this was based on needs 60+ yrs back. World is quite different and one should be able to chose how to buy their vehicle regardless if the OEM has a brick and mortar store in that state .. just need reasonable laws addressing how that OEM intends to support their customers, least wise minimums.

Anyhow, the Mod 3 does look great and I can see for 90%+ of driving needs it's 200m + range covers all ....

yeah, Solar panels .. gonna start looking at those!


pete
 

TonyC

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Epic and FirstTracks readers all know my skepticism regarding the climate model projections. So my opinion is quite similar to this:
Pete:"Agree that steps are the way, Don't completely agree with the "global warming" verses large cycles and our influence but then don't understand the complete dismissal and why not take steps that in the long run benefit on the whole better products with less impact."


Pete:"Personally find the Volt a nice product, not as advanced as the Tesla but really has some nice technology and given one needn't stop for recharging, a good solution for those who may travel longer distances."
I agree with this too. If you're price constrained but want to reduce your gas consumption for whatever reason, the Volt seems to me the best choice. Long term a Volt driver is using electric about 70% of total mileage. But GM has negative brand equity/image among many consumers, especially on the West Coast and among the eco-conscious. It's not rational, but IMHO the sales figures reflect it vs. the Prius which sells like hotcakes by comparison. I think enthusiasm for the upcoming 200 mile electric Bolt will be similarly damped by GM's brand image among the likely buyers, especially with Tesla Model 3 on the horizon.

RachelV said:
, any chance you could share that spreadsheet? :)
I can't do much about formatting. First and last columns are what matter most. If you arrive at a supercharger with say, 50 rated miles on the car and need to depart with 200, take the difference in minutes between the 200 row (48 minutes) and the 50 row (10 minutes). You will need about 38 minutes to charge in this bolded example below.

Rated Miles(85) KW RM/hr RM/minute min/10mi minutes
0 115 380 6.3 0.0 0
10 115 380 6.3 1.6 4
20 115 380 6.3 1.6 6
30 115 380 6.3 1.6 7
40 115 380 6.3 1.6 9
50 112 370 6.2 1.6 10
60 110 363 6.1 1.7 12
70 109 360 6.0 1.7 14
80 106 350 5.8 1.7 15
90 103 340 5.7 1.8 17
100 98 323 5.4 1.9 19
110 90 297 5.0 2.0 21
120 85 281 4.7 2.1 23
130 80 264 4.4 2.3 26
140 73 241 4.0 2.5 28
150 67 221 3.7 2.7 31
160 63 208 3.5 2.9 34
170 57 188 3.1 3.2 37
180 54 178 3.0 3.4 40
190 51 168 2.8 3.6 44
200 47 155 2.6 3.9 48
210 43 142 2.4 4.2 52
220 38 125 2.1 4.8 57
230 35 116 1.9 5.2 62
240 31 102 1.7 5.9 68
250 25 83 1.4 7.3 75
260 22 73 1.2 8.3 83
270 19 63 1.0 9.6 93

Here are the (mostly) additions you need to make to "rated range" for speed, temperature, hills from another poster on Tesla Users Forum:
Speed
45mph -26%
55mph -8%
60mph Rated
65mph 8%
75mph 26%
Extrapolate above, 9% for every extra 5mph

Temps
15F 25%
32F 13%
50F 7%
70F Rated
100F 7%
120F 13%


Elevation
Up 1,000 feet 10 miles
Down 1,000 feet -4 miles


Road Conditions
Dry Rated
Wet 2%
Standing water 10%
Light snow 15%
Heavy snow 25%

Spring ski trips through the desert to Mammoth are a near ideal scenario for the Tesla. I may not use it during the coldest winter temps as the charge stops will be much longer.
 
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RachelV

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Thanks! Will be fun to play with those numbers and see how the few longer drives I do shake out.
 
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