Squaw Valley enters alliance with Chinese outdoor retailer

[Tricia]

TRUCKEE, Calif. (AP) — A ski resort at Lake Tahoe has announced a new partnership with one of the largest outdoor retailers in China to help attract more Chinese skiers and snowboarders to the region.

The agreement between Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows and Toread builds on the Sierra resort’s existing alliance with China’s Genting Resort Secret Garden.

Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows President and CEO Andy Wirth told the Sierra Sun (http://tinyurl.com/y8jm8rl6) that Toread is a leader in virtually every area of outdoor recreation in China. He says the cross-promotional deal will allow the Tahoe resort to better tap into the fast-growing Asian market.

The China Ski Association says the number of skiers in the country has increased from 200,000 in 2000 to 12.5 million in 2015.

Squaw’s partnership with Toread will help expose Chinese skiers and snowboarders to the resort by bringing members of the Chinese media along with Chinese actor Xia Yu to Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows in order to produce editorial and marketing content, Wirth said.

Toread also will promote Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows information and vacation packages at its 200 stores in China, via the company’s travel agency Easytour and on its online travel site lvye.com.

“As the number of skiers and snowboarders in China continues to grow, our partnership with Toread will be critical in helping to raise awareness for Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows among Chinese winter sports enthusiasts and those generally interested in outdoor recreation and travel,” said Tracy Chang, vice president of digital marketing and director of China Marketing at Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows.

Wirth said Toread and Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows will also work together to coordinate competition between the United States and Chinese national freestyle teams, with the possibility of offering lessons and ski guiding at both resorts.

In addition to being China’s leading outdoor retailer, Toread operates the Snowone ski competition tour — a popular, televised skiing and snowboarding tour in China. Ten of Snowone’s winners will have the opportunity to take advantage of five days of lift access and six nights of lodging this upcoming season at Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows, giving additional incentive for China’s top skiers and snowboarders to make the trip across the Pacific Ocean.

Genting Resort Secret Garden will be one of the sites for freestyle skiing and snowboarding during the 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

My first thought was "oh good, a billion new skiers coming to CA." My second thought was ... hmmm, this should be good for the ski economy and therefore good for the sport.

 

[fatbob]

Look forward to the carnage on West Face.

 

[KingGrump]

Look forward to the carnage on West Face.

Just Darwin at work.

 

[Muleski]

I have posted this thought before. The team at KSL is very smart. I have some direct insight there. They are going to be breaking all sorts of new ground in this sport, IMO, and they are not "following" anybody in this business. I hope the talk of competing with VR on pass price goes away soon, along with the assumption that they are simply going to take over Intrawest, and Mammoth, ans that things may stay "same as it ever was". Or the continued banter that they are ruining Squaw/Alpine, as some/most locals profess. I've been a local in a couple of ski towns, and I get it. Guess what? The local view tends to be a pretty narrow.

BTW, it's not real accurate to refer to the company that operates and runs Squaw/Alpine as KSL. Andy Wirth and his team run Squaw. Eric Resnick and his KSL team have plenty of bigger things to deal with, and I am certain have many more deals to be made. Create the vision, sure. Provide the capital, yes. Big picture stuff. "KSL" isn't determining which terrain is open, this lifts open at what times, etc.

China is the world's biggest ski market. Pretty staggering numbers. Also staggering wealth being created there. This will be interesting to watch. Some fascinating things going on there. I personally like their plans to put together the gold standard of ski academies, to build a world class national team as fast as possible. Starting by selecting the best athletes.

Capitalizing on the top sliver of Chinese destination skiers sounds like smart business to me. And I suspect that KSL/Aspen will be very shrewd about it. Once again, I don't think this will be huge numbers of skiers. The coordination of competitions is very interesting, too. The CEO of KSL is not a "casual skier". Nor is the Chairman.

When they announced the Intrawest deal, which had been brewing for a long time, I made the comment that this was just the start. Lots of deals, lots of changes, and from what I hear a lot of new thinking.

High end....global. Best in class. Just a thought and I guess, my $.02.

 

[Tricia]

I have posted this thought before. The team at KSL is very smart. I have some direct insight there. They are going to be breaking all sorts of new ground in this sport, IMO, and they are not "following" anybody in this business. I hope the talk of competing with VR on pass price goes away soon, along with the assumption that they are simply going to take over Intrawest, and Mammoth, ans that things may stay "same as it ever was". Or the continued banter that they are ruining Squaw/Alpine, as some/most locals profess. I've been a local in a couple of ski towns, and I get it. Guess what? The local view tends to be a pretty narrow.

I'm with you on this.
My only goal is to be open minded, but I think that many of the assumptions are detracting from the real interest of the company and smart moves like this.

 

[Muleski]

I agree, and I'm not just a huge KSL fan boy. I'm objective about this. It's interesting to see evolve.

The business has changed SO much in the last 15-20 years. And it continues to change, quickly.

I read that article in Powder about Deer Valley "meeting their new PE owner" and thought, nope you don't get it. This is not your average PE firm. If all they wanted to do is rape and pillage and coin every dime possible, they would not be doing it in this business.

I say that having about a dozen friends who run PE firms. Most of whom ski, BTW.

This is not about going up against the Epic Pass. BTW, as a significant owner of WB, KSL could have bought all of WB rather that VR, and chose not to.

And as an observer, with some family who spend a lot of time in the Tahoe basin, I do think that there were/are a lot of scars and "learnings" that have deservedly come about with Squaw/Alpine. Fact is that "somebody" was going to buy it, it needed a lot of money put into it, and it was going to change. Am I off base on that.

And obviously the whole "region" has traffic and infrastructure issues, as there seem to be huge numbers of skiers, and more every year flooding the area. That's a "problem", for many.

These guys are not dim bulbs, or fools. And from what I observe, they are pretty good people. And a lot of big institutional investors love them.

If I had grown up in Olympic Valley, I might have a completely different perspective. I get it. I grew up with a family home in Stowe. Read my posts about my thoughts on VR, at Stowe, and it's pretty obvious that I get nostalgic and think about the past, and get worried about the numbers. But nobody was going to buy it to stand still. They are fortunate that AIG was there forever.

I bet that when Squaw/Alpine is done, it will be a good finished product. Different, and it will not appeal to a slice of the old guard. Get it.

Just suggesting that this group thinks with a very, very broad view. Much as other leaders in other businesses do. These are not ski area guys, which can create all sorts of opinions.

China is a big market. Maybe we'll see a KSL deal done there? Maybe we'll see them get an early and nice slice of the high end Chinese destination skier market. I doubt if this is new thinking, BTW.

My point is that, from what I observe, this team gets Resorts, destination travel, high end, skiing, and thinks globally.

Proof will be in the pudding down the road. May be an Fail. My bet is that it won't be.

 

[Tricia]

I read that article in Powder about Deer Valley "meeting their new PE owner" and thought, nope you don't get it. This is not your average PE firm. If all they wanted to do is rape and pillage and coin every dime possible, they would not be doing it in this business.

I read that same article and scratched my head at the things that I know "not to be true"

Again, I'm not trying to tout any one thing in particular. My only goal is to stay open minded and become as informed as I can be.
As for the comparisons of the moves made by VR; As someone who has seen the underbelly of the beast, I get a different feeling from the moves made by KSL.

My dad always said: If you hear two sides that are extremely far apart, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

[Muleski]

My dad always said: If you hear two sides that are extremely far apart, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Your dad sounds like a smart man! Great advice.

 

[Lorenzzo]

I'm not sure what to make of this as if at some point it is applied to Deer Valley. For a lot skiers I'd suspect after doing a run, just a few minutes later they'd want to do the same run again. I'm also concerned some of the lodging would have problems with windows falling out. A third reference would come from Chinatown but it would've crossed the line.

 

[fatbob]

The real impact of this depends on how KSL aim to monetise the relationship. I can see why locals ( which include longstanding weekend visitors to Truckee- Tahoe) have reason to be concerned about any development given the way 89 and Olympic Valley get mobbed every weekend.

If the end resultt is lots of "Squaw" branded resorts popping up all over China then it's a very different proposition to domestic visitors being locked out of village properties as Chinese tour ops take all the capacity.

 

[Tricia]

Another thing to keep in mind is that companies like The Adventure Project are starting to consider China as a destination for skiing.
I'm interested to see what @Mattadvproject may think about it.

Heck, Pugski is going to Japan this coming season, maybe our next adventure will team up with KSL and The Adventure Project for a Pugski in China

 

[fatbob]

Heck, Pugski is going to Japan this coming season, maybe our next adventure will team up with KSL and The Adventure Project for a Pugski in China

Why not just come to Europe? We have better cheese, wine and weissbier as well as on mountain après.

 

[Mattadvproject]

Another thing to keep in mind is that companies like The Adventure Project are starting to consider China as a destination for skiing.
I'm interested to see what @Mattadvproject may think about it.

Heck, Pugski is going to Japan this coming season, maybe our next adventure will team up with KSL and The Adventure Project for a Pugski in China

G'day Tricia,
Well, the reason I went to China was primarily because I had the opportunity to. I've always had China on my radar as a potential destination, but until recently, had not heard great things about the quality of the skiing in terms of snow and terrain. My understanding had been that most of the resorts were small, were in areas that did not receive a lot of natural snowfall, didn't have the most exciting terrain and were very busy (being located near to population centers). There was nothing that really inspired me to want to go (yet!). Then the Warren Miller movie "Dynasty" came out in 2009 and for the first time, I got to see skiing in a part of China where they had decent looking snow and terrain. This was all before I got into the tour business. Watching that segment in the movie (they filmed in the village of Hemu, in the Kanas region of Xinjiang Province) was definitely inspiring and it stuck in my mind. Then back in 2015 I met Maolin Gu online on Facebook. I'm sure some followers on here know Maolin. He's basically setting up the Chinese version of the PSIA and is extremely well-connected (and as it turns out, a really nice person and extremely passionate about the sport of skiing and teaching it). He's also starting the push to take Chinese skiers overseas as well, with a lot of his instructors and other clients, heading down to NZ for skier improvement courses.

He told me of development of skiing infrastructure in the Aletai Mountains and that he was interested in checking it out. He went out there that Fall and looked at the mountains. He was very impressed by the region (he's since bought property in Aletai and is very committed to the area). A heli-ski operation was planned for last season and then we got talking about that. I was invited out to go check it out in 2017 and I will be going back with 1 group in 2018 to test the waters properly. The Xinjiang area is very intriguing for skiing. They have the terrain and the snow and the infrastructure is developing quickly. It was interesting to see how quickly things have changed in Xinjiang, in Aletai City and especially in Hemu Village. The roads are in, the high-speed railway (undergoing a massive expansion all over the country) has nearly reached the area, they have the airports now (Aletai has year round flights via Urumqi, hopefully they will start flying direct from Beijing or Shanghai soon and there is a big new airport in Kanas, currently only open in the summer but as the demand increase, they hope to have that open in the winter).

There is an interesting dynamic developing where you have the old Hemu Village and the growing resort of the Hemu Hotel which is a little higher up the valley from the village. They are really expanding (the Hotel has only been open in the summer previously and this was their first season opening in the winter) and they have some ambitious plans. There is a corporation established to develop tourism in the area with a major development focused at the Hotel. They want to put in a lift on the hill behind the Hotel and have a ski area there. They bought a cat to try and develop cat skiing but they haven't figured out where they will set up the cat skiing operation. They also want to start a heli-ski operation too. It seems like the money is there, they lack the experience to get the ball-rolling. There is definitely the potential to work with Western advisors and help introduce them to a lot of the necessary start-up procedures. Whether or not they try and keep it all in-house, remains to be seen. It will be interesting to see what happens.

This massive and rapid investment in the Chinese ski area, is happening country wide in the lead up to the Winter Olympics in 2022. It was an exciting time to witness this first hand in Xinjiang, but it is everywhere. The Chinese government recently declared skiing as a sport of the people and with the growing middle/upper class (and the ridiculous amount of ski areas they are building right now, I had heard they want to have 700 to 800 resorts operating by the time 2022 comes by, I believe that would make them the largest resort operator in the world and would soon after become, the biggest ski market in the world), skiing is becoming both affordable, accessible and desirable. The Chinese are taking a more active approach to their leisure time and sports for fitness are becoming more popular. Have a look at my friend Jeff Oliveira's website - http://www.skichina.com/industry-overview/, he has some very telling statistics on there about how the Chinese ski industry is growing and the potential of it. It's not surprising that US-based companies like KSL have seen value in partnerships with key Chinese wintersports companies to try and entice some of that market to come and experience Western resorts. Why not? I think there is a strong chance that Chinese skiers, as the market matures and becomes more experienced (currently Jeff Oliveira estimates that 3/4 of the current skier base are beginners and under 40), will start to look overseas if they can afford to and perceive that Western resorts still have better amenities. How welcome they will be made to feel by our current government is another kettle of fish (certainly a debate I am not willing to get into!).

I think there is great potential for skiing in Xinjiang Province in the Aletai Mountains (I still am waiting for more research to be done on snowfall amounts and the stability of the snowpack in that area). There's plenty of snow and even bigger mountains close to Urumqi and I've heard talk of new development in that area too. Another area to keep a look out for is over on the far eastern side of the country (scarily close to North Korea) in the Changbaishan area, they get decent snow in that zone and seem to have the terrain too (concerns also about the snowpack for steeper skiing in that region too). The World Freeride Tour were out there this winter checking out the zone for a potential stop on the tour. Jordan Manley did a very interesting feature on the growth of Chinese skiing and featured Changbaishan and the cat skiing they have there - . They made it look pretty good.

The other interesting thing is that you can fly to Beijing very, very cheaply during the winter. This was the final deciding factor last season for me to visit China (and for my wife to come out for a holiday later on too). I'm not sure if this is just a winter thing when it is very quiet, but I flew from Denver to Beijing (with United) for about $560 USD return. The internal flights were more expensive than the international flights. If we can get that direct flight from Beijing to Aletai, then that would really help and should see quicker (without the long 6 hour plus layover in Urumqi) and cheaper domestic flights. It was an exciting prospect to be one of the first Western tour operators to visit the area last season. Meeting the locals and seeing their reactions (all positive, they'd not seen or met many Westerners before), was what inspired me the most to want to come back. The skiers in that area are super passionate about skiing and straight away, even though we didn't speak the language, we had something in common. The bond that unites all skiers and boarders, our love for riding and being in the mountains, was definitely apparent in China. Hopefully I can return in 2018 with a small crew of adventurous-minded people.

- Matt

 

[Muleski]

Fascinating post, @Mattadvproject!
Thanks, very much.

 

[mikel]

^ +1

 

[TonyC]

I read Matt's reports in some detail, and I don't see anywhere in China being a viable international destination for cat/heli skiing with erratic snowfall and that extremely dangerous snowpack. If they throw enough $$$ at it, sure they could develop some lift served resorts in the Aletai or Tien Shan mountains that would be superior to the 100% snowmaking dependent places near the population centers. But with the snow stability issue, I'd guess these developments would be strongly intermediate/on-piste oriented.

So what avid skier from North America would go to even those places over Japan for skiing? That's the real takeaway IMHO from China's promotion of skiing. The Chinese may replace all of those lost skier visits in Japan from the 1980's. Surely that's going to be the first place Chinese skiers look once they become proficient. So people here ought to be signing up for Matt's and other Japan ski trips sooner rather than later!

As for KSL wanting to get in on the ground floor in luring some of that growing market to their resorts in North America, sure that makes a lot of sense.

 

[pete]

Somehow when ever hearing of China, I think of Back To the Future's Doc and Marty's comment on stuff from Japan/

generally I see any development in making skiing more popular a good thing...

 

[markojp]

I read Matt's reports in some detail, and I don't see anywhere in China being a viable international destination for cat/heli skiing with erratic snowfall and that extremely dangerous snowpack. If they throw enough $$$ at it, sure they could develop some lift served resorts in the Aletai or Tien Shan mountains that would be superior to the 100% snowmaking dependent places near the population centers. But with the snow stability issue, I'd guess these developments would be strongly intermediate/on-piste oriented.

So what avid skier from North America would go to even those places over Japan for skiing? That's the real takeaway IMHO from China's promotion of skiing. The Chinese may replace all of those lost skier visits in Japan from the 1980's. Surely that's going to be the first place Chinese skiers look once they become proficient. So people here ought to be signing up for Matt's and other Japan ski trips sooner rather than later!

As for KSL wanting to get in on the ground floor in luring some of that growing market to their resorts in North America, sure that makes a lot of sense.

I don't really agree that Japan will be the Chinese market's first destination. There's still an underlying historical animosity that is very real and easily leveraged for domestic political expedience and consumption, and the world is a rather fragile place at the moment. There's also the larger 'cultural tourism' element for the Chinese to visit both N.America, Europe, NZ, etc..., and I don't know that Japan can absorb all the potential skier visits without similar problems that Tahoe will experience if long term economic growth and stability are in the world economic cards. The bigger question is, will we accept the potential influx of new visitors gracefully in the new political environment we live in? This is an elephant in the room that will have to be considered. If we recall, there was a lot of discomfort with Japanese concerns buying into N.American real estate/ ski areas, and yes, outright racist commentary about the economic 'threat' at the height of Japan's bubble. Is the growth of the Chinese market a potential driver for expansion and development of new ski areas in N.America? Could it lead to potential investment/changes in forest service policy in N.A. ski backwaters like the PNW? As far as unstable snowpacks are concerned in China, are they any more unstable than any other continental snowpack? Is mitigation out of the question? And a quick last thought, which region in N. America will make deals with airlines to do direct flights? Which regional airports can accommodate 787 and 777 type aircraft?

 

[Mattadvproject]

I don't really agree that Japan will be the Chinese market's first destination. There's still an underlying historical animosity that is very real and easily leveraged for domestic political expedience and consumption, and the world is a rather fragile place at the moment. There's also the larger 'cultural tourism' element for the Chinese to visit both N.America, Europe, NZ, etc..., and I don't know that Japan can absorb all the potential skier visits without similar problems that Tahoe will experience if long term economic growth and stability are in the world economic cards. The bigger question is, will we accept the potential influx of new visitors gracefully in the new political environment we live in? This is an elephant in the room that will have to be considered. If we recall, there was a lot of discomfort with Japanese concerns buying into N.American real estate/ ski areas, and yes, outright racist commentary about the economic 'threat' at the height of Japan's bubble. Is the growth of the Chinese market a potential driver for expansion and development of new ski areas in N.America? Could it lead to potential investment/changes in forest service policy in N.A. ski backwaters like the PNW? As far as unstable snowpacks are concerned in China, are they any more unstable than any other continental snowpack? Is mitigation out of the question? And a quick last thought, which region in N. America will make deals with airlines to do direct flights? Which regional airports can accommodate 787 and 777 type aircraft?

I think the Chinese migration to skiing in Japan is already well underway Mark. I had heard of increased Chinese skier visits and property investment when I was in Niseko in 2016 and how they were bringing in a lot of money. This article does seem to support that idea - http://www.nbcnews.com/id/41909837/...le-chinese-flock-japan-ski-town/#.WbwvYdFrzIU. Obviously this is only one article, but interestingly, it does date back to 2011, so things could have changed, but I would think that Chinese investment has only increased since then. We moved away from Niseko last season to head further north and it is much quieter up there, a lot fewer Westerners and other foreigners. Foreign investment is a lot slower where we are based in Furano, I wonder if it will ever really take off up there too? Hakuba seemed to be the more recent hotspot for foreign investment after Niseko exploded.

- Matt