Snow tires for Denver?

[ChrisFromOC]

Quick question for those who live in Denver --- should I plan on getting snow tires for my daughter's car for the winter months? She's in college in Denver, but will make a lot of weekend trips to the various Vail resorts in Summit County. If it matters, the car will be an AWD Subaru.

Thanks for any input.

 

[Philpug]

If you have to ask. YES.

 

[Chris Walker]

Even if you don't have to ask, YES. Most days she would be able to get away with good all-seasons, but storms can come in suddenly and heading up the tunnel approach on slick roads is no time to regret your tire decision. My car is AWD Subaru too and I've been driving these roads for decades but yes I'm definitely getting winter rubber. Frankly, I've seen a lot of Subarus in the ditch over the years.

 

[Scotty I.]

You can get away with driving around Denver with all-season tires but trips to the mountains require snow tires. In fact, Colorado has laws about this. The law is (in case you're interested) if you have 4WD or AWD, snow tires aren't required. If you have FWD or (God forbid) RWD, you must have snow tires or chains. This is especially true along I70. I also have a Subbie Outback (doesn't everybody?) and I always equip it with snow tires.

 

[Muleski]

Another yes vote.

Adult daughter lived in Denver for four years before moving to the RFV. Drives a 2008 Outback XT. Has dedicated snows {Hakkas} and is glad she does. Had zero need other than perhaps two days a winter in Denver. Heading up in elevation, every weekend, different story.

Having said that, her roommate in Denver also had an Outback, was on the road skiing every weekend, grew up in the mountains and always ran all seasons. Seems like whenever they were headed to the same place with a wintry forecast, they took the snow tires

Adult niece in Boulder has a Subie Impreza, and she runs Nokian WR's year round. They are an all season tire with a decided winter bias. Perform very well on ice, hardpack, slush and she says in ANY depth of snow. She hates messing around with swapping over tires, storing the off season tires, etc. Very popular tire with Subie owners who deal with varying temps and roads in the winter. They are winter rated.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

Agree with Muleski. Plus, leave them on through May. Some of the spring storms are the worst with melt and refreeze.

 

[crgildart]

Agree with Muleski. Plus, leave them on through May. Some of the spring storms are the worst with melt and refreeze.

This is 100% important observation. When a snow storm hits while the ground and roads are still warmer than 32 degrees the base layer of snow hitting the ground will melt then re freeze as the snow cools the roads below 32 degrees. This is the real reason why southern regions are such a mess when they get one of the rare snow events.. It's not just that southerners can't drive in snow.. it's that there's no sand already down from previous snows and the first hour or two of snow hit the warm surface and refreeze to ice.

At least in Denver there will likely already be leftover sand around to mitigate that some, but it's still nastier than snow hitting colder ground is..

 

[jmeb]

Another Denverite with a hard yes in case you needed more confirmation.

 

[coskigirl]

The law is (in case you're interested) if you have 4WD or AWD, snow tires aren't required. If you have FWD or (God forbid) RWD, you must have snow tires or chains.

That's not quite accurate. The Passenger Vehicle Traction Law (code 15) applies at specific times when activated. It requires that any vehicle must have tire tread depth of 1/8th inch tread. Those vehicles that are not AWD or 4WD must have either snow tires or all-season tires with the mud and snow (M+S) designation.

Very rarely (at least on the I-70 corridor), they will implement a Passenger Vehicle Chain Law (code 16) which means that every vehicle on the road must have chains or other traction device. Personally, I have never driven when this is in effect. Usually they skip it and go straight to closure.

https://www.codot.gov/travel/winter-driving/TractionLaw

 

[Doug Briggs]

Your vehicles traction is only as good as the tires on it. AWD, 4WD can help a lot but if the wheels are spinning for lack of grip, you ain't going nowhere. Driving skill can only make up so much for lack of good, grippy tires. The cost of a second set of tires and swapping is small compared to vehicle and bodily damage.


Another vote for 'don't come to the mountains without snowtires.'

 

[jmeb]

Those vehicles that are not AWD or 4WD must have either snow tires or all-season tires with the mud and snow (M+S) designation.

And for further clarification:

"Snow Tires" or 3 Peak Mountain-Snowflake (3PMSF) rated tires are a performance rating -- i.e. the tire must pass certain tests in wintery conditions to achieve this rating.

"M+S", "M/S", "M&S" tires are a design rating-- i.e. the tire must meet certain design requirements, but doesn't not have to pass any tests regarding performance.

While lots of people drive M/S tires on subies up to the mountains, they are generally* not in the same ballpark performance and safety wise as 3PMSF rated tires.

* "Generally" because there have been instance of M/S tires which are very very good snow performers to where they probably could get a 3PMSF rating if the manufacturer decided to pay for those credentials/ratings. However these are the exception rather than the rule.

 

[dlague]

If it is for your daughter then I would also say yes but please warn her that the winter tires do not make her invincible to winter weather or bad winter drivers.

I come from New England and grew up driving on All Season tires and have continued to do so in Colorado. That being said, I do not go for the low end tires and look for tires that have good traction ratings, and tread patterns. We live in Colorado Springs and much of my driving 90% ish is generally not on snow so I am not interested in the tire noise of Winter Tires. Colorado Springs like Denver will experience snow storms but a couple days later the snow is gone - it does not stick around.

Now both of our vehicles are AWD or 4WD, yet we still pay attention to weather reports and do not attempt to drive in the middle of a storm - that is asking for trouble. Not even the best Winter Tires protect you against the yahoos out there with little to no tread left on their tires driving in the snow - I know because I got broad sided by one at an intersection where they slid through a red light (thankfully I was driving a Subaru and was well protected - but it still got totalled). No vehicle inspections = getting away with bad tires.

One thing I have noticed out here is they are not as diligent as the are back east at clearing the roads - in fact they will out right close the highway which creates its own chaos and once again Winter Tires do not help there either - I have seen vehicles stranded. If you go off the road, they will not let you get towed out, rather they will plow snow over your car. The day after a storm looks like Armageddon with all the stranded cars.

If the roads are going to be bad - stay off them. Want to powder chase, go to the mountains prior to the storm and if you cannot then wait until after the storm. We got 40 days in last season and followed that philosophy.

 

[Monique]

Another vote yes. Actually, we run cold weather compound tires, not strictly speaking snow tires.

Everyone's talked about the ability to "go" with winter tires - I'm more concerned with the ability to stop. And you need winter tires for that.

You really don't need winter tires most of the winter in the front range, but on the 3-5 days when you want them - you really want them. But yeah, getting to any ski resort is another matter.

The trouble is that it gets warm enough in the summer to burn through winter tires pretty quickly. I don't know if your daughter will have the ability to store a spare set of tires. We have two sets of wheels with mounted tires, and Discount Tire swaps the wheels for us for free twice a year.

The other trouble is that while there are mileage guarantees for winter tires, they are date limited. I don't remember the exact date, but I like to run my winter setup through Mother's Day, and I know the guarantee doesn't go through May.

 

[Doug Briggs]

...
Everyone's talked about the ability to "go" with winter tires - I'm more concerned with the ability to stop. And you need winter tires for that.
...

QFT

 

[Muleski]

I know that it's been said and posted. The ONLY point of contact between your vehicle and the road surface is your four tires. That's it.

I have never once had a conversation with a skier, with a vehicle that had snow/winter tires who has expressed that he/she wished that had NOT mounted snows.

I have had friends, most quite a few years ago, who probably would have decided not to go with studded snows, but in recent years, studs are so much more quiet, and so much better on dry pavement that for many they make a lot of sense.

Obviously a personal decision based on a lot of factors: where you live, where you ski, your vehicle{s}, the frequency that you ski, and the ability to be flexible with that schedule. And last.....your experience both going AND STOPPING in all sorts of weather, often unforeseen.

Just spoke with my son, and learned that he helped his cousin, who lives in SF and skis at Tahoe every weekend, line up some Nokian WR's for her Subie. She'll use them year round.

@Monique's comment about car dealers/stores storing tires off season is a good one. Very helpful advice.

 

[jmeb]

...
The other trouble is that while there are mileage guarantees for winter tires, they are date limited. I don't remember the exact date, but I like to run my winter setup through Mother's Day, and I know the guarantee doesn't go through May.

Depends -- this isn't true for all winter tires. My 3PMSF tires have a 55k mi treadlife warranty with no date restrictions.

Not sure if similar tires exists for Subarus.

 

[Monique]

@Monique's comment about car dealers/stores storing tires off season is a good one. Very helpful advice.

Oops. Discount Tire does NOT store our wheels/tires for us. We keep them in our garage, but they swap for free. I don't think they'd swap tires for free - having two sets of wheels makes it a much easier process.

 

[Muleski]

It varies all over the place, in terms of tire dealers and stores. One of the high end tire stores near us {Boston} will swap over for free, and will store tires for free.

We have all of our snows on dedicated rims. Store them at home, and I swap them over and torque them. Guess I prefer to know where they are! Our daughter complains that they eat up a lot of space in her storage unit. As do a number of bikes, a lot of skis, tuning bench, blah, blah.....

 

[BGreen]

Quick question for those who live in Denver --- should I plan on getting snow tires for my daughter's car for the winter months? She's in college in Denver, but will make a lot of weekend trips to the various Vail resorts in Summit County. If it matters, the car will be an AWD Subaru.

Thanks for any input.

That is an incorrect question. The correct question is, with all the advances in snow tires, does my daughter need a summer/all-season tire? To that question, I would say no. Buy a set of Michelin X-Ice 3 tires and run them all year. In my opinion, they are a true all-season tire. Not the best on snow, but they don't melt (too fast) in the summer. Buy them from Costco ($70 off a set of four right now) or Discount -- they are the two best tire shops in the area. A set of the Michelins run year round is good for about 30,000 miles, but you don't have to worry about storing or changing tires, which is one less thing for a college student to deal with. If you want to the best of the best for a pure snow, Blizzak or Hakkapelitta. If you want the cheapest snows you can get, the Hankook iPike's (ripoff of an old Nokian) are good but loud, particularly when studded, and the new Yokahama's are getting decent reviews. @Muleski's suggestion to run dedicated summer/winter tires on dedicated wheels is the correct way to go, but not the only way. I've noticed that most people who buy Blizzaks have very little experience with other tires because once they buy a set they just keep buying more.

In my slightly extended family, we have one Outback on the Hankooks, two Outbacks and one Suburban on the Michelins. All the Michelins are run year-round. The Michelins are better than the Hankooks on dry, wet, and ice. The Hankooks are better in deep snow, slush, windslab, and when studded better on snow or slush over ice. I think the Michelins are crap in slush.

If your daughter is going to school at DU, the Discount Tire on Colorado Boulevard will take care of her. They don't carry Nokian. For those you have to go to Meadow Creek Tire. If she is at CU Health Science (Anschutz), the Costco on Havana is best.

Quick question for those who live in Denver --- should I plan on getting snow tires for my daughter's car for the winter months? She's in college in Denver, but will make a lot of weekend trips to the various Vail resorts in Summit County. If it matters, the car will be an AWD Subaru.

At the risk of sounding overly dramatic, if you are concerned about your daughter's safety and wellbeing enough to put her in a Subaru, just put good snows on it and don't think twice. From personal experience, because of way the Subaru AWD system works on automatic transmission cars, they can be occasionally terrifying in winter conditions without good snow tires when the AWD system freaks out and suddenly shifts power around. I would bet good money that is what happened to the driver of every upsidedown Subaru in the ditch on I-70. Manual transmission Subarus have a 50/50 torque split and are much more predictable.

 

[SBrown]

I had Michelin X-Ices on my Audi Allroad this past season ... end of Sept through end of June, and went about 20K miles on 97% dry pavement. (And not even that cold, once it hit February ) Tread depth ended up 8s and 9s when I replaced them with my all seasons.