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Slow Line Fast Bump Skiing done slowly.

BornToSki683

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Don't forget, I was a participant at that tryout and understand the mindset of many there. Some maybe did push past their boundary and their performance suffered. Some skied at their boundary with the occasional slip over and recover and their performance was exciting and showed athleticism and performance. Others may have skied below their boundary and their skiing was lackluster.
Depends how far below their "boundary" you're talking about, but I hear you.

My personal goal is to push to and sometimes over my boundary so that it expands and the next time I tryout, hopefully, skiing just at my limit will show accurate and exciting skiing.

Thumbs Up!

And to your second question, at times I ski at the level of my students so I can show them a lot of accurate, repeatable movements. Sometimes I ski above the level of my students so I inspire them to another level. And sometimes I ski just at and over my level to show them that I am human as well.

Yea my question was not whether you ski to their level its whether as a demonstrator you should be skiing beyond your own level.
 

Mendieta

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Don't forget, I was a participant at that tryout and understand the mindset of many there. Some maybe did push past their boundary and their performance suffered. Some skied at their boundary with the occasional slip over and recover and their performance was exciting and showed athleticism and performance. Others may have skied below their boundary and their skiing was lackluster. My personal goal is to push to and sometimes over my boundary so that it expands and the next time I tryout, hopefully, skiing just at my limit will show accurate and exciting skiing.
And to your second question, at times I ski at the level of my students so I can show them a lot of accurate, repeatable movements. Sometimes I ski above the level of my students so I inspire them to another level. And sometimes I ski just at and over my level to show them that I am human as well.

That's a dear topic to me. I started to skk as an adult and still suck big time. But the one thing I noticed is that st the beginning I was too anxious to make progress, so I would push my limits too much, which meant a lot of crashing and much higher risk of injury.

I feel like this season (my third, at a rate of 15-20 days per season or so), I started to get better ay staying close to that boundary, but not cross it too much or too often. I feel like that maximizes my learning rate, and my fun factor. So, what's not to love.
 

Nate Gardner

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Why not, as a clinic leader or even a regular instructor, ski past your own limits on occasion. Certainly not all the time and taking on a lesson that is above your own ability level is a recipe for a guest experience nightmare, but so is skiing to low. I have had more then one guest come back from a lesson saying something like, "I ski better than my coach." In some instances I might agree with them, but more often it was hat the instructor didn't show them something that impressed them.

We talk about how this is a recovery sport. Show a recovery every once in awhile.

@Mendieta, I would agree that pushing too often, too far past your boundary is a poor choice and leading a guest down that path may, at best, discourage them from skiing with you again and, at worst, discourage them from the sport entirely. But I'm also happy to hear you are trying to stay near your boundary. I am willing to bet that on occasion you go past that line a little and learn something each time.

I will also add, that at a tryout, like the National Team selection, pushing to and a little over your limit is not a bad idea in some tasks.
 
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Josh Matta

Josh Matta

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wow this is so far off topic......but I am fairly certain that in any normal(non park) lesson no student would ever say they ski better than me....I mean you would know Nate.

My take on this is that you can ski far below the limit heck even slowly and not look like a golf cart see the original post. The thing is I have done yoga or a couple hours a week for about 7 year now......its has greatly reduced my need to take recoveries, my ability to hide recoveries, and when I am actually recovering I feels like I am a moment from a serious enough injury, to stop me skiing for a time. In all honesty I do not like that feeling.
 
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BornToSki683

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well there you have it. Epic is not alone. Risk it for the biscuit. (referring to Nate, not Josh)

Aside from rare circumstances to make a point about "going for it", I do not at all agree about skiing beyond my ability for any class i am teaching. That is a sure case recipe for the opposite of inspiration, not to mention injury. There could be rare circumstances and it would be rare enough for me that I would speak a disclaimer ahead of time. Otherwise, I feel my demonstrations at all times need to be accurate and inspirational. If its beyond my ability, then it more likely will not be either of those things.

I hear you about too many ski instructors looking like golf carts and skiing way below what they are capable of. That is also a problem I agree, but I see a wide gulf there and I personally do not think its appropriate for professional ski instructors to fling themselves around beyond what they are capable of except for perhaps very rare exceptions. As inspirational and dynamic as they can be without showing off or going beyond what they have down. When you go off on your own to work on skiing, then obviously, be as daring and experimental as you want!
 

Nate Gardner

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well there you have it. Epic is not alone. Risk it for the biscuit. (referring to Nate, not Josh)

Aside from rare circumstances to make a point about "going for it", I do not at all agree about skiing beyond my ability for any class i am teaching. That is a sure case recipe for the opposite of inspiration, not to mention injury. There could be rare circumstances and it would be rare enough for me that I would speak a disclaimer ahead of time. Otherwise, I feel my demonstrations at all times need to be accurate and inspirational. If its beyond my ability, then it more likely will not be either of those things.

I hear you about too many ski instructors looking like golf carts and skiing way below what they are capable of. That is also a problem I agree, but I see a wide gulf there and I personally do not think its appropriate for professional ski instructors to fling themselves around beyond what they are capable of except for perhaps very rare exceptions. As inspirational and dynamic as they can be without showing off or going beyond what they have down. When you go off on your own to work on skiing, then obviously, be as daring and experimental as you want!

I think we are missing each other a bit. Beyond your limit is a zone, not a line. The deeper in that zone, i.e, the further you get from your limit, the higher the risk of injury becomes. It is not like I hit that limit line and then, BANG, I'm down, injured, and buying beers for falling in uniform (on that subject, I have fallen more times skiing slowly and complacently on green terrain than I have pushing myself on double diamond terrain). You can go into that zone and pull it back. A few times of that and it takes a little more to get into that zone.

I rarely push myself into that zone when leading a clinic and almost never when a group is following me as at that point they are probably well within their own OC zone. But we'll probably not come into agreement on that and that is fine. To each his own.
 

Nate Gardner

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wow this is so far off topic......

My take on this is that you can ski far below the limit heck even slowly and not look like a golf cart see the original post. The thing is I have done yoga or a couple hours a week for about 7 year now......its has greatly reduced my need to take recoveries, my ability to hide recoveries, and when I am actually recovering I feels like I am a moment from a serious enough injury, to stop me skiing for a time. In all honesty I do not like that feeling.

I love that feeling. Power, performance, and recovery.
 

BornToSki683

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sure there is a zone, but usually when you go beyond your ability into the experimental zone you are also starting to get into slop skiing. At high levels of skiing there is ALWAYS some inherent risk even if you are perfectly within your ability. We can't control everything about the environment and we are not robots that never make mistakes.

I am happy to hear you rarely enter that zone when teaching a clinic and that is what I have usually observed from coaches I respect and what I would have expected you to say.

Anyway more to the point of this thread, which was to analyze some bump skiing, Josh asked about his deliberately slow and controlled skiing through the bumps, somehow we ended up with the National team bump tryout...with some excellent examples of skiers pushing it into that zone. Some of us liked the daredevil stuff, some of us were less impressed. Some of us liked the more controlled and refined skiing, others were less impressed. Does that about cover it?
 

Nate Gardner

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This wouldn't' be the first time a thread went off topic but remained a good discussion. :)

Sometimes it is even Josh who takes it off topic.
 

Nate Gardner

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sure there is a zone, but usually when you go beyond your ability into the experimental zone you are also starting to get into slop skiing. At high levels of skiing there is ALWAYS some inherent risk even if you are perfectly within your ability. We can't control everything about the environment and we are not robots that never make mistakes.

I am happy to hear you rarely enter that zone when teaching a clinic and that is what I have usually observed from coaches I respect and what I would have expected you to say.

Anyway more to the point of this thread, which was to analyze some bump skiing, Josh asked about his deliberately slow and controlled skiing through the bumps, somehow we ended up with the National team bump tryout...with some excellent examples of skiers pushing it into that zone. Some of us liked the daredevil stuff, some of us were less impressed. Some of us liked the more controlled and refined skiing, others were less impressed. Does that about cover it?

Just to clarify, I believe the video presented was of the Rocky Mountain Team selection, not the National. But, yes, skiing, like the art it is, attracts us each in a different way.
 

markojp

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This wouldn't' be the first time a thread went off topic but remained a good discussion. :)

It is page 6 though. ogsmile

To clarify one thing, I'm sure we all MA'd the tryout vid, but speaking only for myself, I don't offer public comment if it hasn't been asked for. If asked by the skier, or paid to do so for a client, sure!
 
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Josh Matta

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Sometimes it is even Josh who takes it off topic.

I actually just did nt care about going of topic....and kept it on point for awhile.

Its just funny that someone with a in couple post posted Lipton skiing bumps at his level...not slowed down....
 

markojp

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First reply, I believe. Also was clear I was just busting your chops. :beercheer:
 
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Josh Matta

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sure there is a zone, but usually when you go beyond your ability into the experimental zone you are also starting to get into slop skiing. At high levels of skiing there is ALWAYS some inherent risk even if you are perfectly within your ability. We can't control everything about the environment and we are not robots that never make mistakes.

I am happy to hear you rarely enter that zone when teaching a clinic and that is what I have usually observed from coaches I respect and what I would have expected you to say.

Anyway more to the point of this thread, which was to analyze some bump skiing, Josh asked about his deliberately slow and controlled skiing through the bumps, somehow we ended up with the National team bump tryout...with some excellent examples of skiers pushing it into that zone. Some of us liked the daredevil stuff, some of us were less impressed. Some of us liked the more controlled and refined skiing, others were less impressed. Does that about cover it?

whats weird its wasnt never about trying to impress anyone....it was always about just showing something that is never shown.....slow controlled bump skiing that doesnt look like a Golf cart with legs....heck I strive to make my wedge turns look fun......

with all this talk about reaching the limit, maybe we should talk about reaching the limit of someone's skills and not the limit of their athleticism.
 

Tricia

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wow this is so far off topic......but I am fairly certain that in any normal(non park) lesson no student would ever say they ski better than me....I mean you would know Nate.

I know for a fact that you ski better than I do and I'm not your student. ;)
 

BornToSki683

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From a non-instructors's eye using mainly the criteria of making difficult terrain look easy with round turns and less "air-pivoting" I like the lady at 6 min and the dudes at 14:20 and 15:50

I like the guy at 15:50 also. A lot of good stuff going on there!
 

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