Skiing Risk Management

[Mendieta]

This rings true from my experience. Many times I'll quit skiing for the day when I start feeling that fatigue. @Philpug often says, "You don't want your last run to be your last run"

Yes. After about 20 days of skiing, meaning, the end of my first season, I learned how to recognize the signs of being exhausted. I like skiing so much that I can easily fool myself. So: how do I recognize I'm tired? It's very simple: I can't turn the way I want it. My brain says "turn", and my legs go "maybe in a few seconds, we are tired down here". So I start missing turns and traversing. Time for a rest.

 

[crgildart]

There seems to be a general theme brewing about pushing things beyond your longer ski day sustainability. That's directly proportional to what kind pf physical condition you are in. I used to have no problem going bell to bell at places with night skiing with a couple of short breaks. Nowadays, skiing hard for 4 hours can make me mostly spent for the remainder of the day. Even if I stop at 3 and take a long break eating dinner if I go back out I'm only solid for another hour. And, I do hike for 2-3 miles several times a week and just finished coaching U15 soccer for the fall. I expect to have slightly better endurance for this season, but have definitely confirmed there are some serious diminishing returns post age 40 getting even steeper at age 50+. There are some friends I have that do really well, running full marathons, 100 mile XC 24 hour events, running ascents in the Tetons for 12 hours straight, Triathlons, etc.. but I'm definitely not one of them..

 

[Monique]

My brain says "turn", and my legs go "maybe in a few seconds, we are tired down here". So I start missing turns and traversing. Time for a rest.

After a few incidents involving broken tree branches, I made a rule for myself: no trees on day 3.

Then, to @crgildart 's point, when I started skiing a lot harder, with more consecutive days, I found I no longer had to follow that rule. But I have had days when I just had to stop. The saddest was a powder day in a lesson, where we kept hitting rope drops ... but at lunch, I had 26k under my belt (generally a full day for me is around 20k), and I realized I couldn't anymore. Of course that was a late lunch Half the group kept charging; the other half, guys with tons of strength who also don't waste a lot of energy turning *koff*, kept going. God bless 'em.

Now that I think about it, that was a day 3.

 

[Yo Momma]

Tried and True basic recipe for a successful & fun week long trip out west (from sea level): These are strictly suggestions...........

@ 2 weeks before departure Ginko (solid brand like Herb Pharm) 4 drops 2x per day in full glass of water. Helps the body acclimate more efficiently......... try it! 1 week before you leave, stop working out and allow your body to heal........... get plenty of rest.

Day one: ~10am - 2pm: regardless of how good you feel.......stop @ 2 (eat light foods nothing heavy/hydrate + no alcohol)

Day three: ~ 10am - 2pm: again stop and rest

Day six: Chill on the groomers........ all day and drink heavily.......... all day! Resist the urge to get in that last day of sick skiing........ Take in the scenery, enjoy the moment, breathe............

This entire plan goes out the window if it DUMPS 3ft!!!!!!!! Everyone for THEMSELVES!!!!!.........BAIL on the group........ no friends, no family, no sex on powder days!!!!!!!!!! LOL

 

[Monique]

This entire plan goes out the window if it DUMPS 3ft!!!!!!!! Everyone for THEMSELVES!!!!!.........BAIL on the group........ no friends, no family, no sex on powder days!!!!!!!!!! LOL

Powder days don't count as sex??

After some of my powder runs, I've definitely felt like I needed a cigarette. And I don't smoke!

 

[Yo Momma]

Then don't even think about trying Kiteboarding! You'll be smoking cigars! Just got back from a trip to the OBX, NC last week........ what a TOTAL RUSH! Every run feels like an epic 5ft dump!...... it's Nirvana

 

[KingGrump]

who also don't waste a lot of energy turning *koff*, kept going.

Now, you know.

 

[Monique]

Then don't even think about trying Kiteboarding! You'll be smoking cigars! Just got back from a trip to the OBX, NC last week........ what a TOTAL RUSH! Every run feels like an epic 5ft dump!...... it's Nirvana

I've done a very little bit of wake surfing. It feels like skiing unending powder without any risk of stumps or shark fins ....

Now, you know.

Yeah, although, the one guy's skiing has been described as "like a freight train." Also, when I finally felt that I was skiing like that, I tore my ACL four seconds later. So. Still trying to figure what to make of all that.

 

[Mendieta]

Half the group kept charging; the other half, guys with tons of strength who also don't waste a lot of energy turning *koff*, kept going.

Yes, there is that. The better your technique, the less energy you waste, and the longer you can ski ...

 

[KingGrump]

Yeah, although, the one guy's skiing has been described as "like a freight train." Also, when I finally felt that I was skiing like that, I tore my ACL four seconds later. So. Still trying to figure what to make of all that.

Sorry, my universal translator must required calibration. I thought you meant "don't waste a lot energy in the execution of turns" rather than "don't waste a lot of energy by not turning."
My bad.

 

[LiquidFeet]

My two season-ending injuries did not involve any of the things people are discussing here: no exhaustion, no skiing at the edge of my capabilities, no excessively high speed, no crowded slopes, and no skiing at the edge of a trail. Both injuries were, as far as I can tell, unpredictable quirks caused by unpreventable factors. Neither could have been avoided by me being more prepared.

#1: I was skiing round turns, short radius, in soft buttery spring snow, first tracks down a green groomer. My ski folded (no reason, just did), throwing me over the handle bars and upside down. I slid into the woods, facing up, head first. Came to an abrupt stop on a boulder. I'm lucky I did not hit on my neck or spine, or head. The impact was directly on my right scapula, which splintered, and my right clavicle folded and broke. That right shoulder has mended up quite cleanly. Ligaments were not torn, thankfully. And I am alive, not paralyzed from the neck down. That easily could have happened.

#2: I was skiing bumps in spring snow in a boulder-filled twisty turny narrow trail. I was moving down at a snail's pace, carefully choosing my line to avoid messing up my edges on granite ledges. At one point I traversed to find a line, going oh probably 0.005 mph. My intended path was up and over a medium-sized bump while I searched below for a clean path down the hill. One ski went up and over the bump, but the other penetrated the bump's soft side and came to an abrupt stop. This threw me downhill onto the next bump, where I landed upside down at very, very slow speed on the top of my right shoulder. This was a hard abrupt landing, no sliding, just a blunt stoppage, which resulted in a broken humerus. That right shoulder has again mended up quite cleanly. There was no ligament damage, thankfully. I skied down, rode the chair up, and skied that run again just to let it know I was the boss. No pole plants, though. That second run I did not traverse.

So none of the usual risk management behaviors, avoiding being in the back seat, getting more strong and fit, quitting earlier in the day before fatigue sets in, minding my speed, staying away from crowded slopes, avoiding trail edges, or simply skiing smarter would have kept me safe (as far as I can tell).

My take-away: Skiing is inherently dangerous. I'll do what makes me happy as long as I'm willing to accept that unpreventable major injuries can happen with no warning. I constantly ask myself, if I lose control right now because of some unexpected anomaly, am I willing to take the consequences? I wish I didn't ask myself that. Caution infects my enthusiasm.

 

[Spooky]

Now, you know.

I think King Grump gains energy from turning.

 

[Monique]

Sorry, my universal translator must required calibration. I thought you meant "don't waste a lot energy in the execution of turns" rather than "don't waste a lot of energy by not turning."
My bad.

I was being a bit tongue in cheek - humor and tone doesn't always make it through in written form!

 

[SBrown]

Yes. After about 20 days of skiing, meaning, the end of my first season, I learned how to recognize the signs of being exhausted. I like skiing so much that I can easily fool myself. So: how do I recognize I'm tired? It's very simple: I can't turn the way I want it. My brain says "turn", and my legs go "maybe in a few seconds, we are tired down here". So I start missing turns and traversing. Time for a rest.

My last run of SIA testing last year, I literally skied into a tree on purpose because I just couldn't turn any more. There was a little fatigue involved, but mostly it was pain (which is same-but-different, because pushing through pain finally does get fatiguing, etc). I was skiing toward the edge of a run, not too fast of course, and I just. couldn't. make. another. turn. I skied off the slope into a tree, mostly the branches, because I had quickly calculated that they would stop me but most likely not injure me. It was literally the strangest, oddest thing I've ever done skiing, and I've done a few weird things. But yeah, time to call it.

 

[green26]

This thread is very helpful. It seems to me that prevention (and what to do when you're in a situation) isn't discussed much, like the elephant in the room. Thanks everybody.

 

[Mendieta]

This thread is very helpful. It seems to me that prevention (and what to do when you're in a situation) isn't discussed much, like the elephant in the room. Thanks everybody.

Mmm, what did you have in mind, in terms of prevention? The big items mentioned there have been physical conditionining, staying away from your limits (including exhaustion) and being aware of avy conditions. In terms of what to do, @Monique and others suggested that once you are in a run, you are better off being midly aggresive as opposed to defensive, which makes a lot of sense, since defensive skiing tends to produce backseat situations that are pretty dangerous.

Anyways, any ideas, appreciated. And I agree, folks brought a lot of useful ideas. cheers!

 

[lonewolf210]

I'm still single and in my 20s (although since Sunday it's my late 20s ) so my acceptable risk level is much higher than other posters. I think one of the biggest things is listening to your gut. Having been doing high risk activities for a while now there's a big difference in the feeling of this scares me and this is a bad idea. I do think there is a lot of value in learning to manage your fear and push past it, which on occasion means you crash or push your abilities a little to far. You can do that under the right conditions though. Deciding to try that first super steep bump run in soft snow versus sun baked refrozen goes a long way in mitigating the risk even if the bump run turns out to be a little too much for you.

I guess it goes back to that crazy versus stupid discussion at the beginning of the thread.

 

[François Pugh]

Risk Management 101: There's a little voice inside my head that's very hard to hear; it's almost silent. However, I have learned that when I here it telling me not to do something, I'm much better off not doing it. Don't argue with your inner voice.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Since I said crazy not stupid, it is about understanding your limit and when you wish to raise that bar, do so in small increments, don't jump way over the line. As you gain experience the line moves slowly upwards.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I have one cardinal rule for sports: don't go faster than you are prepared to hit something at.

Of course how you hit can negate the apparent safety factor you create by not exceeding the speed limit, which is to say you always come out of a wreck ok, but, the faster you go the more energy you have so the more injury you are likely to incur during an impact with a hard object.