Review: DPS Phantom Permanent Base Glide Treatment

[dovski]

Actually Juice Permanent is back but interestingly only being targeted at trade no consumers - Non-compete? Licence of patent for consumer given to DPS?

https://looknowax.com/juice-permanent/

This stuff has been around for a couple years in Europe, unfortunately no US distribution, but it is supposed to work well. I am going to try and get some so I can compare it to DPS Phantom. Their price point is way lower than DPS so could be a good option if it works

 

[VinceF]

Finally got on the snow, 1st day this year. First day on Phantom as well.
Details:
Skis: DPS Wailer 112RP 184cm
Skier: male, 200 lbs., good skier
Place: Deer Valley, UT

Ran up to Deer Valley on Sunday. (not so secret insider tip: DV is fairly empty during Sundance!). Stayed on groomers to "ski-in" the sauce per DPS instructions.
As mentioned in various other comments, the skis were quite sticky feeling in the lift line. Had to push off the top as they really didn't glide at first. Seemed to take more than 3 - 5 runs to get it broken in. After several runs a friend asked what I thought and I said it better improve or I would be totally underwhelmed. However, by the afternoon I was not seeing an difference. Seemed as good as a freshly waxed ski. At the end of the day, I skied the Jordanelle run down to the gondola. I felt this was a good test as there is a very long, flat runout at the end of the run. Glide was terrific and I passed several others along the way just gliding.

Summary, so far so good. If the skis feel the same on day 5 as they did at the end of day one then I will be impressed.

 

[ScottB]

VinceF,

Can you share details of your ski prep before applying the phantom and your prep after you applied it. I am half way through the application (cleaned the skis, and cured the part A, waiting for another sunny day for part B). I did three pairs of skis (mine, wife's, son's) and mine were previously waxed, my sons were new, never waxed, skied 5 days, and my wifes were brand new. I used Swix Citrious base cleaner on all three and brushed pretty hard with brass brush and cleaned with fiberlene.

I would imagine how much you cork in and brush out afterwards will make a big differernce on the "ski in" time.

 

[VinceF]

VinceF,

Can you share details of your ski prep before applying the phantom and your prep after you applied it. I am half way through the application (cleaned the skis, and cured the part A, waiting for another sunny day for part B). I did three pairs of skis (mine, wife's, son's) and mine were previously waxed, my sons were new, never waxed, skied 5 days, and my wifes were brand new. I used Swix Citrious base cleaner on all three and brushed pretty hard with brass brush and cleaned with fiberlene.

I would imagine how much you cork in and brush out afterwards will make a big differernce on the "ski in" time.

See post #205 in this thread.

 

[ScottB]

Well, success. I got out on my newly Phantom'd slalom race skis last night. I coach for a youth race team north of Boston. Conditions were firm, a bit frozen, and lots of small balls of ice scattered over the runs. The small hill shut down on Tuesday to protect their snow pack from the rain and groomed the heck out it on Wednesday. Have to say conditions weren't as bad as I was expecting. Temps were high teens, maybe 20 F when we started.

Right off the bat I had a long traverse and the skis felt very slippery, like I just did a nice wax job. They skied great all night and I never had to "ski in" the treatment. Might have been the conditions, but no complaints from me. Were they better than a good wax job, NO, but they were equal in glide to a good wax job. If they ski like this every time in all the varied conditions we get in Massachusetts, I will be a happy camper. On rare occasions when I use flourinated race wax I have felt a better glide, but the skis were just a little off from that and I agree with the claim they ski like a good universal wax.

I did wipe them down really well with paper towels after each part's application and corked them really well and brushed them out hard. They were pretty clean and slippery when I was done. I thought of the saying "wax in the skis, not on the skis" while doing this and I think that helped to not have the sticky feeling. I ski 2 nights a week for about 10 weeks so that will be a decent amount of use by the early March end of the season.

One final detail to add, I did a full day cure for each part on very sunny days, almost no clouds. My skis seemed to have cured very well. For what its worth, I didn't want to have all 3 pairs come out sticky and have to repeat the process.

 

[nemesis256]

Well, success. I got out on my newly Phantom'd slalom race skis last night. I coach for a youth race team north of Boston. Conditions were firm, a bit frozen, and lots of small balls of ice scattered over the runs. The small hill shut down on Tuesday to protect their snow pack from the rain and groomed the heck out it on Wednesday. Have to say conditions weren't as bad as I was expecting. Temps were high teens, maybe 20 F when we started.

Right off the bat I had a long traverse and the skis felt very slippery, like I just did a nice wax job. They skied great all night and I never had to "ski in" the treatment. Might have been the conditions, but no complaints from me. Were they better than a good wax job, NO, but they were equal in glide to a good wax job. If they ski like this every time in all the varied conditions we get in Massachusetts, I will be a happy camper. On rare occasions when I use flourinated race wax I have felt a better glide, but the skis were just a little off from that and I agree with the claim they ski like a good universal wax.

I did wipe them down really well with paper towels after each part's application and corked them really well and brushed them out hard. They were pretty clean and slippery when I was done. I thought of the saying "wax in the skis, not on the skis" while doing this and I think that helped to not have the sticky feeling. I ski 2 nights a week for about 10 weeks so that will be a decent amount of use by the early March end of the season.

One final detail to add, I did a full day cure for each part on very sunny days, almost no clouds. My skis seemed to have cured very well. For what its worth, I didn't want to have all 3 pairs come out sticky and have to repeat the process.

You also did part A and B a few days apart right?

 

[Slim]

I am curious about the amount of goo that comes in the package. It says it's enough for one pair of skis but there's a big surface difference between a 160 cm slalom and a 185cm fatty powder pair. For those who applied did you have excess?

I did my wife’s 170cm x 95mm skis and there was plenty. If you have 192 x125cm skis you might run a bit low, I would say since those are so rockered anyway, just skip the very tip and tail if you run a bit low.

 

[ScottB]

You also did part A and B a few days apart right?

Correct, I did part A on Sunday and part B on Thursday, so 4 days between them. It took that long to have a very sunny day again in the Boston area. I called DPS and they said as long as you cured it right after apply you can wait a while in between the parts. They didn't say what was too long, but a week they said OK to.

 

[ScottB]

I did my wife’s 170cm x 95mm skis and there was plenty. If you have 192 x125cm skis you might run a bit low, I would say since those are so rockered anyway, just skip the very tip and tail if you run a bit low.

I wouldn't skip any part of the bottom personally. I applied it to a 175cm slalom ski and a 184cm long, 117mm wide Moment Bibby Pro (powder ski). There was still excess on the 117 wide ski, plenty actually. It was less than the slalom ski, obviously. I bet you could do 2 junior skis with one package. My biggest ski is 191cm long by 143mm wide. I think there is enough for those skis, but that will be a good test.

 

[VinceF]

FWIW, I saw this update today.

https://www.skimag.com/gear/dps-phantom-test

 

[Jacques]

FWIW, I saw this update today.

https://www.skimag.com/gear/dps-phantom-test

Hmm.........what makes me think they are getting ad revenue from DPS?

 

[CalG]

Hmm.........what makes me think they are getting ad revenue from DPS?

I wanted to say the same, but recoiled over apprehension of negativism. $$$ talks!

I do wonder how the treatment holds up with commercial base grinds and hot waxes over the rollers at the "ski shop".

Is it only a hydrophobic?

 

[Jacques]

I wanted to say the same, but recoiled over apprehension of negativism. $$$ talks!

I do wonder how the treatment holds up with commercial base grinds and hot waxes over the rollers at the "ski shop".

Is it only a hydrophobic?

In time we will get long term reviews from "regular" people.

 

[ScottB]

Here is photo I took of the Part A while curing in the sun. Another interesting nugget is: for my old skis that had been waxed and cleaned with the Swix Citrus stuff, when brushing them out after applying both parts, I was getting small white flec's coming off the ski. I am pretty sure it was wax left in the ski. Not a lot of it, but noticeable. The other two pairs I did never saw wax and did not shed any flecs.

 

[Started at 53]

Poor man’s vise, which worked great for the edge tuning and de-waxing. In my absence the past three weeks.... My brake rubber bands were “put away”.... which is female code for thrown out.... So I had to click the boots in to get the brakes out of the way. The Pocket Beast Pro Edger @2* worked like a charm with the Moonflex diamond stone. Of course the 400 grit is lost in the mail (ordered Jan. 14th) so I just touched up the edges with the 600 grit. My skis were ok, Betsy had a bit of a nasty scrap on one of her edges underfoot. Hard Gummy got it of the small rust spots prior to using the stone.

Part A applied and it is out in the sun

 

[ScottB]

I got out on my slalom race skis with Phantom last night, which was my second time on them. I don't plan to post every ski session on them, but last night was warm, in the 40's, and the snow was very soft and different from the boiler plate I skied the first time. My experience was different, so I figured I share. I coach a youth race team that practices in the evening at a local Massachusetts hill.

The snow was soft and very edgeable. It didn't get to corn or mashed potatoes, but there was some loose piles around. The skis have excellent glide, as before, but this time they were just a tiny bit sticky when standing still. If your in the lift line and slide your skis back and forth, I could feel just a small amount of initial friction. Once the ski started moving, the friction went away. I did some skating from lift to lift, and they felt good. Basically, this is exactly what DPS describes I should feel and now that I was in soft snow, it happened. On a hard surface, the skis had no initial friction. Once moving the glide was excellent, equivalent to a fresh wax job.

I skied a large mtn over the weekend and brought the Phantom skis. I left them in the car, however, and skied another freshly waxed pair. My plan was to get them after lunch so I had an A to B comparison, but I got lazy and never got them. I am curious to see how they hold up on long, high speed runs. My local race hill is only 400 ft vertical, so long and high speed aren't possible.

 

[Ronald Truong]

Here is photo I took of the Part A while curing in the sun. Another interesting nugget is: for my old skis that had been waxed and cleaned with the Swix Citrus stuff, when brushing them out after applying both parts, I was getting small white flec's coming off the ski. I am pretty sure it was wax left in the ski. Not a lot of it, but noticeable. The other two pairs I did never saw wax and did not shed any flecs.

View attachment 38354

Hey ScottB,
Was wondering how your application went. When you got the white flecs coming out, was the stuff sticky? I just did the following steps:

- Clean w/ swix base cleaner
- Part A on day 1. Cure for 6 hours (Went to work). When doing the part A, I noticed one packet had milkier resin, while the other pack was clearer.
- Part B on day 2. The part Bs were consistent with each other.
- After curing part B and starting to cork/brush, one ski was WAY WAY sticky, while the other was smooth. The stickier one started to have more white stuff come out.
- After finishing, each ski has a different surface finish. The sticky one looks like it has nothing applied. Basically, the same visual appearance after I used the base cleaner (dry no wax appearance). The other ski is a darker and looks like it has something on it.

Questions / comments:
- After applying part B and curing, was there still liquid on top of the base or did it harden? Mine was partially liquid (And sticky on one ski).
- Let me know how your ski (With the white stuff) skis.

I'm kind of concerned. I'll be skiing in Tahoe tomorrow with spring conditions. I'm hoping I don't end up with one ski gliding, while the other sticks.

 

[Ronald Truong]

HM... in regards to the white and stickiness, I found some reassuring review info here. See review by Bill titled Phantom Confusion

https://www.backcountry.com/dps-skis-phantom

Still crossing my fingers for tomorrow

 

[ScottB]

Hey ScottB,
Was wondering how your application went. When you got the white flecs coming out, was the stuff sticky?

My white flakes were not sticky at all, they were definitely wax that I did not get all out with the cleaner.

I just did the following steps:

- Clean w/ swix base cleaner
- Part A on day 1. Cure for 6 hours (Went to work). When doing the part A, I noticed one packet had milkier resin, while the other pack was clearer. I noticed this too, not sure why?
- Part B on day 2. The part Bs were consistent with each other.
- After curing part B and starting to cork/brush, one ski was WAY WAY sticky, while the other was smooth. The stickier one started to have more white stuff come out. Mine were both the same, no white sticky stuff
- After finishing, each ski has a different surface finish. The sticky one looks like it has nothing applied. Basically, the same visual appearance after I used the base cleaner (dry no wax appearance). The other ski is a darker and looks like it has something on it. I can see what you describe in your pics. It looks strange to me. Its not very clear in the video, but you are supposed to wipe the skis clean after curing each part with a paper towel. Not sure if you did that? Mine took several paper towels and looked pretty smooth and the same after wiping. I corked and brushed after Part B and didn't have any stickyness. I suggest you contact DPS, they called me to check on how my Phantom came out, I bought 4 packs. I used 3 and have one left. I have only skied one pair of skis, but all 3 came out the same (no white flakes at all on the 2 unwaxed skis).

Questions / comments:
- After applying part B and curing, was there still liquid on top of the base or did it harden? Mine was partially liquid (And sticky on one ski). There was still liquid on my skis, it was beaded up and somewhat sticky. After wiping it a lot with paper towels both were shiny and smooth. corking it made it better, smoother and shinier, and brought up some liquid to the surface that I wiped off with a paper towel.
- Let me know how your ski (With the white stuff) skis. Both skis ski very well, mine weren't sticky at all on hard snow, just a hint of friction when standing still the 2nd day on wet snow. glide was good both days.

I'm kind of concerned. I'll be skiing in Tahoe tomorrow with spring conditions. I'm hoping I don't end up with one ski gliding, while the other sticks.

One other thing I thought of, I used Swix Citrius base cleaner, which isn't that important, except that I figured any cleaner residue left in the ski might be bad for the Phantom, so I used water and paper towels and wet and rubbed the skis until I felt like all cleaner was completely gone. I remember from Chemistry class it is not good to mix your chemicals (goes for your drugs too).

 

[ScottB]

Ronald,

That is a gooey looking brush . Did you wipe down the excess liquid after curing each part? When I did that, it took all the excess off the ski, or pushed down into the ski. Mine were gooey after curing, but not very white if I remember the specifics.

I wonder if there wasn't something left in the ski that stayed white that interacted with the DPS. If that ski is sticky after a day of skiing, I suggest you get a replacement treatment from DPS. I also suggest a stone grind on both skis with NO wax applied afterwards. I doubt there will be any issues after that. I did two new skis and one used, one had been skied a few days and the other brand new. I cleaned the one that had been skied just in case. The new one looked just like the video on line. The other two were just a touch milky looking.