Safety Red Mountain Pass Ski Avalanche Death

[Mike King]

The final report is out. http://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/acc/acc_report.php?accfm=inv&acc_id=649

RIP.

 

[SBrown]

Sad and scary.

Then 9News publishes this headline: "Report: Skier accidentally set off avalanche that killed him" Accidentally, huh? You don't say? (Plus, it wasn't even accurate; the other skier set it off.)

 

[jmeb]

Just my 2c, but if a change in title of this thread is possible, it might be warranted. My immediate reaction (despite having already read the report in question) was to think "WTF, an inbounds death at Silverton" (the ski area.)

The report itself is very thorough. Sounds like these guys did almost everything right to a T. If you're a backcountry skier, you've veered off your intended line like this before. Such unfortunate consequences to such a small mistake.

Vibes to Abel's family and community.

 

[Monique]

Thank you for sharing this. It's chilling. They clearly had a plan, were versed in beacon searches and emergency medical care ... and yet. What an awful experience for the skiers and their families.

 

[Doug Briggs]

My condolences to the family and friends.

My take home from this is that the early snow we got this year is still around"

The avalanche failed on a layer of faceted, early-season snow near the ground, and released the entire season’s snowpack.

This kind of depth hoar should be anticipated unless you dig a pit to the ground checking for it or know that an area has slid to ground earlier in the season. This type of condition is typical for CO but by now most of the stuff we want to access has slid already due to higher (normal year) snow loading.

Be careful everyone.

 

[SlideWright]

We stopped by on Saturday to pay our respects and see the line. It definitely looked like if Abel had been a few degrees or maybe 20 feet skier's right he would have stayed on the spine. This is a huge bummer. RIP to Abel and condolences to all those affected.

 

[SlideWright]

My condolences to the family and friends.

My take home from this is that the early snow we got this year is still around"



This kind of depth hoar should be anticipated unless you dig a pit to the ground checking for it or know that an area has slid to ground earlier in the season. This type of condition is typical for CO but by now most of the stuff we want to access has slid already due to higher (normal year) snow loading.

Be careful everyone.

They were aware of the 'Considerable hazard' but veered off of their planned course a little.

 

[Doug Briggs]

They were aware of the 'Considerable hazard' but veered off of their planned course a little.

Of that I'm aware. I just wanted to emphasize that the October snow is still with us and that is what makes CO so dangerous year in and year out.

 

[Mike King]

My condolences to the family and friends.

This kind of depth hoar should be anticipated unless you dig a pit to the ground checking for it or know that an area has slid to ground earlier in the season. This type of condition is typical for CO but by now most of the stuff we want to access has slid already due to higher (normal year) snow loading.

Be careful everyone.

Doug, I'm no expert, but my understanding is that snow pits are not really very useful for those that are traveling in avalanche terrain. They are useful for those that are monitoring the snowpack in a specific location over a long period of time, but that's not the typical case of the average person on a ski tour. The pit is specific to its location -- move a short distance away, and the snow pack may be different.

I was taught that you dig a snow pit for a particular purpose and you ought to know why you are doing it in advance. Generally, you will be looking for a reason not to ski something and should not use a snow pit as confirmation to ski something.

Based on the snowpack that we've had in the Aspen area, it is unlikely that the weak layers, which are quite thick and now deeper in the snowpack, will be resolved before Spring, if not Summer...

Mike

 

[SBrown]

Was talking to a Copper dude yesterday who said patrol was getting stuff to run pretty big ... all the way down to the facets at the ground. Which remain. Thus the problem remains, as soon as it snows again.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Was talking to a Copper dude yesterday who said patrol was getting stuff to run pretty big ... all the way down to the facets at the ground. Which remain. Thus the problem remains, as soon as it snows again.

Like it just did. Scary.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Doug, I'm no expert, but my understanding is that snow pits are not really very useful for those that are traveling in avalanche terrain. They are useful for those that are monitoring the snowpack in a specific location over a long period of time, but that's not the typical case of the average person on a ski tour. The pit is specific to its location -- move a short distance away, and the snow pack may be different.

I was taught that you dig a snow pit for a particular purpose and you ought to know why you are doing it in advance. Generally, you will be looking for a reason not to ski something and should not use a snow pit as confirmation to ski something.

Based on the snowpack that we've had in the Aspen area, it is unlikely that the weak layers, which are quite thick and now deeper in the snowpack, will be resolved before Spring, if not Summer...

Mike

It has been a while since I took an Avi course so recommendations certainly could have changed from when I was educated. I'm not criticizing them for not digging a pit. But a snow pit likely would have revealed the depth hoar. An academic review of conditions in CO in general would reveal that unless an area has slid, there is a high probability of a weak ground layer everywhere in the state. Whether the layers above are strong enough to take it out of the equation could be determined by an extended column test or Rutschblock test.

Mostly I'm just advocating for knowing the layers in your snow pack and never to make assumptions that October snow is out of play. The group in the accident we are discussing had an error in following their intended route which is unfortunate. No amount of testing could have prevented that error although it might have given a sign that the area was susceptible to ground level failures.

 

[Monique]

Doug, I'm no expert, but my understanding is that snow pits are not really very useful for those that are traveling in avalanche terrain. They are useful for those that are monitoring the snowpack in a specific location over a long period of time, but that's not the typical case of the average person on a ski tour. The pit is specific to its location -- move a short distance away, and the snow pack may be different.

It has been a while since I took an Avi course so recommendations certainly could have changed from when I was educated. I'm not criticizing them for not digging a pit. But a snow pit likely would have revealed the depth hoar.

My understanding is that avy courses trend far more toward human factors these days. My avy class a few years ago strongly emphasized learning how to interpret the CAIC forecast/report and learning about human factors. While we did dig some pits, that was not the emphasis. We also talked a lot about observations made en route, like how the snow responds to being stabbed by your pole, noting aspects, noting signs of avalanche activity, etc.

My understanding of the report - that in this case, the party knew about the depth hoar (you pretty much have to assume it, right?) and thus chose a route based on the idea that they would be on a less steep slope and would have avoided the terrain trap. What I get out of this, and other stories, is that it is much harder to stick to the planned route than one might think.

 

[Tico]

The critical observations necessary change given the avalanche problem, e.g. perhaps shear quality for a persistent slab problem vs visual ques for a windslab problem.

And yes, it's easy to change aspect and angle in complex terrain (all of the Juan's), either due to a lapse in judgement or a simple mistake. Sam's is tough to ski comfortably through the trees. The slide paths are the easiest/most fun way down.

I don't dig looking for basal facets. They're not a surprise, in any continental snowpack. Always there, always growing.

I'd encourage you all to further your education at some point, things have sort of changed in the last 5 or 6 years, in regard to how and what is taught in L1's and 2's.

 

[Monique]

I'd encourage you all to further your education at some point, things have sort of changed in the last 5 or 6 years, in regard to how and what is taught in L1's and 2's.

Maybe three years ago, I took SAFEAS and then Avy 1 within a week of each other. Very good stuff. My husband and I asked a lot of questions in Avy 1 that we were told we'd have to save for Avy 2 - that's engineers for you. But I need to take Avy 1 again - for a variety of reasons, wasn't able to focus on snow science since the classes. I'd also like to take SAFEAS again - different perspective, and I had the chance to do a multi burial search while Jackie Paaso yelled at us that her friends were down there and WHY WEREN'T WE DOING ANYTHING? Much more true to form, I think, than the more casual beacon searches we did during Avy 1.

But all of that needs to wait until I get my AT boots sorted.

 

[Mike King]

Here’s one of the key take aways I had from Avinash 1. What do you need for an avalanche? An unstable snowpack, a trigger, and avalanche terrain. You can’t do anything about the snowpack, and you are a trigger, so what you can do is control the terrain.

 

[Monique]

Here’s one of the key take aways I had from Avinash 1. What do you need for an avalanche? An unstable snowpack, a trigger, and avalanche terrain. You can’t do anything about the snowpack, and you are a trigger, so what you can do is control the terrain.

The Slide podcast also said the same thing, verbatim.

But again. The people in this situation did intend to control the terrain. They got off course. Tragedy ensued.

 

[Mike King]

@Monique , I agree. It’s a sad situation and shows one of the other take aways from my Avi course: you can make a plan, but it can be hard to stick to it. We don’t know what led to the failure of the plan in the case of this tragedy, but my avi class was a highly experimental learning experience. We were a group of 6-7 students who did not really know one another or our course leaders. We came up with a plan and several objectives. Once underway, almost all of the plan went out the window. And once we started skiing, the rest of it disappeared

Thetes a couple of things I learned from the experience. First, 8-9 folk is way too many. It’s too hard to make decisions and include everyone in the process, let alone have buy-in to the result. Second, while plans have to change based on new information, you need discipline to stick with the plan. And that’s hard. Finally, human factors are probably the biggest issue in safe travel.

Mike

 

[Rod9301]

Doug, I'm no expert, but my understanding is that snow pits are not really very useful for those that are traveling in avalanche terrain. They are useful for those that are monitoring the snowpack in a specific location over a long period of time, but that's not the typical case of the average person on a ski tour. The pit is specific to its location -- move a short distance away, and the snow pack may be different.

I was taught that you dig a snow pit for a particular purpose and you ought to know why you are doing it in advance. Generally, you will be looking for a reason not to ski something and should not use a snow pit as confirmation to ski something.

Based on the snowpack that we've had in the Aspen area, it is unlikely that the weak layers, which are quite thick and now deeper in the snowpack, will be resolved before Spring, if not Summer...

Mike

This is true for things like wing slabs.

But generally a week buried, faceted layer will be on most similar aspects, thickly North facing.

So it's really useful to dig a pit to see if there are any weak layers.

And then to see if a fracture propagated or not.

In powder, I always did a pit before I climb a couloir, and last year it likely saved my life. A few year and I got an read fracture that propagates. Turned around, and a couple of hours later someone got caught in a thousand got slide in similar terrain close by.
He survived unhurt.

So yes, digging pits is very useful, and it only takes a few minutes.

 

[Ken_R]

Poking around in the Beaver Creek backcountry I found the snowpack a mixture of weak layers on top of junk below treeline. In the more lower angle and sheltered areas there was not much of a continuous slab in there but where there is a slab it can all go down far and wide if the slope is steep enough. The bottom layer is pretty bad. This is kinda typical for Colorado I guess. But that weak structure is just nasty on steep slopes.