Razor-Tune Test (With Photos)

[Doug Briggs]

Marks on the edges from machined beveling tools are still open for some debate. I think that for speed, they should certainly be polished but to the extent that they are totally removed, I'm not sure.

 

[hbear]

Not sure what evidence there is, but the current thinking is better for SL/GS and polish for speed.
Some anecdotal thoughts to why the like machine tune for SL/GS and hand polish for speed. Perhaps less the actual marks but more the diection of cut?
Some thoughts that the markings provide some additional grip for icy courses....

Food for thought, seems like most SL/GS skis are finished to a 400grit while speed skis can be polished to 1000 grit.

Once I get my machine I can post some comparisons.

 

[Jacques]

Jacques needs pics of his work.

I'm thinking that ideally there would be no grooves? Or do we want the equivalence of "structure" in the edges as well?

I have a photo or two. The photos posted by the OP at the start here are very magnified. That's why we see the "lines" so well. Probably should have posted a few "regular" photos to go with those for reference.
Let me see if I can get a photo or two up here. Still have not figured that out totally yet.

Micro hairs.

Burr form damage.

A side edge. Normal vision.

One more.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I have a 1500cfm cyclonic shop vac with final self cleaning hepa filter, runs on 220v.

 

[Jacques]

I have a 1500cfm cyclonic shop vac with final self cleaning hepa filter, runs on 220v.

Photos of the beast? Please. Brand & model number?

Must cost a lot!
http://www.abt.com/product/78040/Bo...LA&pt_source=google&pt_medium=sc&pt_campaign=[PMX] [PLA] [US] Long Tail&pt_adgroup=[PMX] [PLA] [US] Long Tail&pt_keyword=

 

[oldschoolskier]

Yes it did, this is the updated version here

https://jdstools.com/product/2hp-cyclone-2100-ckv/

 

[hbear]

Here's a pic using the Snow Glide FYI
Medium stone, new stone so not fully broken in so finish is a bit rougher than can be expected. While not as "shiny" as using hand tools, the finish is actually more precise and of better quality. This is the standard WC finish for tech events.

Best of all, a couple passes takes literally less than a minute, a quick run with a ceramic and I'm completely done with the edge and edge is race ready.

 

[Blue Streak]

Here's a pic using the Snow Glide FYI
Medium stone, new stone so not fully broken in so finish is a bit rougher than can be expected. While not as "shiny" as using hand tools, the finish is actually more precise and of better quality. This is the standard WC finish for tech events.

Best of all, a couple passes takes literally less than a minute, a quick run with a ceramic and I'm completely done with the edge and edge is race ready.

View attachment 30427

Saw the video.
Very cool machine!

 

[Xela]

I'd like to see the same resolution photograph of a factory new ski. I can only take pictures with my phone of skis that have been tuned on the TrimJet, effectively the same machine new skis are tuned with but I don't think I can get the clarity at that macro level with my phone. To my eye, the grooves in the photos from the OP look pretty rough, even after polishing, but that could just be the level of magnification.

Anyone want to donate a factory-new ski? I'm out at the moment.

I think the magnification makes the edges look rough. The last 2-3 photos were of edges that felt smooth and looked shiny to the naked eye. It's all about the grit and fineness of the scratches. Polishing is just making finer scratches. It's scratches all the way down.

 

[hbear]

I just so happen to have an unprepped ski with factory tune, won't be long before I start pulling sidewalls, beveling tips/tails, beveling the topsheet and doing the full race prep on it.
Same ski model, Head iGS RD. Looks a little rougher than the previous one for sure....but not terrible. Certainly not race quality but I'd imagine just fine for most people just sliding around on snow.

 

[Jacques]

Yes it did, this is the updated version here

https://jdstools.com/product/2hp-cyclone-2100-ckv/

You must have some sort of business to employ that thing. Woodworking?

 

[Doug Briggs]

Thanks to @hbear for the factory tune image. It would be interesting to see the factory tune vs the (after market) machine tuned ski at the same resolution, though. The different resolutions don't really permit a side by side comparison. I'm going to start tuning skis at the shop this weekend. I'll try to take some photos at the same resolution; factory vs trimjet. I don't have a handheld machine to compare to, though.

 

[hbear]

Should be same/similar resoultion. I just snapped both with the macro setting on my camera. The framing might be a bit different but shouldn't be too far off.

 

[Sibhusky]

I'm thinking he means same as the first post, not your post.

 

[hbear]

Got it.

 

[Jacques]

Thanks to @hbear for the factory tune image. It would be interesting to see the factory tune vs the (after market) machine tuned ski at the same resolution, though. The different resolutions don't really permit a side by side comparison. I'm going to start tuning skis at the shop this weekend. I'll try to take some photos at the same resolution; factory vs trimjet. I don't have a handheld machine to compare to, though.

A disc is a disc. Should look about the same as the "big" factories are using a disc grinder. Then the factory work can vary quite a bit as the consumables wear or get clogged a bit etc. Never used a "self dressing" grinding disc, so I have no idea how well they really work. Have researched the concept a bit though.
Growing up on the farm I remember the need to dress the bench grinders from time to time. What a difference it can make when the stone gets loaded.

Working at the farms packing house.

Later in the fields. Learned to fabricate stuff back then. Wish I had photo. Lots of grinding anyway!

 

[Doug Briggs]

@Jacques , I am not expecting big differences, but grits can vary, plus the trimjet and factory devices use emulsion which cool and clean as they go. I do expect greater accuracy with the automated edgers. Wielding an edger by hand, effectively a router, seems like it is more likely to introduce variations both in pressure and angle.

 

[Jacques]

@Jacques , I am not expecting big differences, but grits can vary, plus the trimjet and factory devices use emulsion which cool and clean as they go. I do expect greater accuracy with the automated edgers. Wielding an edger by hand, effectively a router, seems like it is more likely to introduce variations both in pressure and angle.

Sometimes I just use one of these!

 

[oldschoolskier]

@Jacques , I am not expecting big differences, but grits can vary, plus the trimjet and factory devices use emulsion which cool and clean as they go. I do expect greater accuracy with the automated edgers. Wielding an edger by hand, effectively a router, seems like it is more likely to introduce variations both in pressure and angle.

With correct design and a good operator hand power sharpening with grinding tool should lead to similar results as an automated machine. Cooling allows for more aggressive and faster cuts. I see tips and tails being the biggest issue.

Hand sharpening using current methods for average (not good) user IMHO is no better and likely worse because to achieve the same speed as the power method the likelyhood of user error is introduced.

Jacques’s grinder no comment. Sigh......I worry about Jacques some days.....I worry even more about the ski’s Jacques gets a hold off.....but then again Jacques onesies could be the cause

 

[Xela]

The Razor-Tune is pretty easy to keep at a consistent angle. It has a wide surface in contact with the ski base and it's not at all top-heavy or wobbly. As for consistency of pressure, that seems addressed; the grinding disc seems to be on a spring-loaded shaft such that when the bearings are against the ski edge, the disc is pressing against the edge with a known force.

Where the challenges seem to lie are: (1) consistent feed rate; (2) tips; (3) tails.