Raising roof of boot after widening

[Sidewinder]

I am currently using the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD BOA 130 with Zipfit liners and love the setup. I had started getting pain in the right 3rd and 4th toe area (almost like a neuroma is beginning, to match my other foot). Went to a well equipped shop, with a good reputation while on a ski vacation, and had an examination and discussion with one of the fitters. He recommended a slight widening of the toe box on both boots (a little more on the right) as my feet widen a fair bit at the front. This was done and the next day I tried them on when picking them up and they felt tight on top but not uncomfortable, and better in width. Left that city and skied at home a couple of days later, and was in a lot of pain from the new pressure where the top lowered down during the stretch and pressed on the front top of my toes. The fitter had showed me how he would do it and assured me I wouldn’t lose height (I am aware of the concept of borrowing plastic).
I’m not able to return there for an adjustment. Later in the day it became more tolerable, and not any pain, but toes were getting somewhat numb, especially over the 3rd and 4th. Feet were also getting colder than usual despite it not being that cold out. I also can’t close the BOA too much without it hurting. Is there anything I can do to help with this? I had considered grinding the front of my footbeds thinner, and possibly padding the top of my feet and getting into the boots, then spot heating the tops to hopefully “relax” the pressure a bit.
Do either of these sound feasible, or anything else I could try?
Not sure when I’d be able to get back to that shop or any other, either this year or well into next year, and there’s nobody anywhere near me who knows how to do this stuff.
if anyone else has tried anything that has helped I’d be grateful to hear about it.
thank you

 

[cem]

the plastic on that boot is trueflex PU and very heat sensitive so expecting to stretch width and have zero effect on height would suggest that the fitter didn't really think about what they were doing, unless they shielded the area they didn't want hot, the heat will have affected the height a little, remember a mm is a mile in ski boots

if you are careful (but the preferred method would be see a boot fitter) a small amount of padding to the foot and locally heating the area is probably the way i would go, but i have not seen your feet.... what interventions have been made to deal with the neuroma if one is actually present, that is the first thing to have assessed, and then if required deal with that first

 

[Sidewinder]

Thank you CEM. The neuroma on the left has been there a few years. Have seen a podiatrist and wore prescription orthotics for awhile which fortunately helped. Wear a lot of Altra shoes. Don’t need to use the orthotics anymore and it never bothered me skiing. Since this stretch was done, I feel some discomfort in that area, and feel sensations/discomfort on the right that made me think one was starting in that foot.
Other than this issue, the boots ski great (although I haven’t tried any uphill laps since, and don’t think that would go too well).
i do have custom Instaprint footbeds that are several years old and still fit well.
I may try the spot heat method gently and only with a little padding. If it doesn’t fix the issue, I will try to plan a trip next season to a proper boot fitter for some help.

 

[BeiJiHu]

I also can’t close the BOA too much without it hurting. Is there anything I can do to help with this? I had considered grinding the front of my footbeds thinner, and possibly padding the top of my feet and getting into the boots, then spot heating the tops to hopefully “relax” the pressure a bit.

What about the bootboard? I know there is not much material in the front, only the heel has that "grid" unter it, but maybe a bootfitter can still take 2-3mm off on a planer?
If heating the top of the boot, what would you do to ensure that the holes of the BOA cable rollers do not get streched/elongated?

 

[cem]

What about the bootboard? I know there is not much material in the front, only the heel has that "grid" unter it, but maybe a bootfitter can still take 2-3mm off on a planer?
If heating the top of the boot, what would you do to ensure that the holes of the BOA cable rollers do not get streched/elongated?

step away from the planer.... lowering the baseboard is the nuclear option when all else fails as it changes the fit everywhere, the OP is looking for what is likely a very small amount of space

as for boa cable guides being stretched with heat, this is 1 why i suggested seeing a boot fitter, and 2 why you don't put tension on the boa system when the boot is hot

 

[BeiJiHu]

Replacement bootboards are 20$, are his footbeds also that cheap? Of course it also changes the angle, but so will grinding the front of the footbeds.
And i don't quite see what heating the top of the boot will achieve as long as there is no tension. Wouldn't the overlap just "unwrap" some more (which takes less force than the plastic bending)?

 

[cem]

Replacement bootboards are 20$, are his footbeds also that cheap? Of course it also changes the angle, but so will grinding the front of the footbeds.
And i don't quite see what heating the top of the boot will achieve as long as there is no tension. Wouldn't the overlap just "unwrap" some more (which takes less force than the plastic bending)?

been boot fitting long??

there is a difference between closing the boa and cranking it up

 

[BeiJiHu]

there is a difference between closing the boa and cranking it up

Which is why i'm bringing this up. And why i'm suggesting the approach that can cause the least damage (in case Sidewinder would want to try grinding/planing/heating himself without seeing a bootfitter first).
If the bootboard solution doesn't work he just throws in a new pair for 20$.
If he wrecks his footbeds -> a trip to the bootfitter to get new ones made (probably >100$).
If heating (partly) reverses the original width-punch that caused this -> bootfitter.
If heating elongates the holes -> maybe (worstcase) needs a new shell.
You get the idea...

 

[cem]

Which is why i'm bringing this up. And why i'm suggesting the approach that can cause the least damage (in case Sidewinder would want to try grinding/planing/heating himself without seeing a bootfitter first).
If the bootboard solution doesn't work he just throws in a new pair for 20$.
If he wrecks his footbeds -> a trip to the bootfitter to get new ones made (probably >100$).
If heating (partly) reverses the original width-punch that caused this -> bootfitter.
If heating elongates the holes -> maybe (worstcase) needs a new shell.
You get the idea...

but you are missing the point, he needs a small amount of space in a specific area, grinding down a baseboard will change the whole fit of the boot, be it dropping the whole foot into a different position of changing the ramp angle if you only grind around the forefoot (and whilst $20 for a base board isn't a lot of money they aren't available at every corner store)

there was no talk of heating the foot beds, so that $100 should be safe, and a small amount of padding and some gentle hat to the boot is a specific area and NOT cranking the boa .... so all in all the safest easiest solution without the "need to visit the boot fitter"

hell i should be saying don't touch a think let the boot fitter do it, but you guys seem to know best, which is why there are so few industry folks posting in this forum

 

[BeiJiHu]

, grinding down a baseboard will change the whole fit of the boot, be it dropping the whole foot into a different position of changing the ramp angle if you only grind around the forefoot (and whilst $20 for a base board isn't a lot of money they aren't available at every corner store)

there was no talk of heating the foot beds, so that $100 should be safe,

I had considered grinding the front of my footbeds thinner,

This is what i was refering to. And merely suggesting that this grinding experiment would be cheaper (if unsucessful) if done to the bootboard...

 

[cem]

@Sidewinder good luck,

i'm out

 

[Near Nyquist]

This is what i was refering to. And merely suggesting that this grinding experiment would be cheaper (if unsucessful) if done to the bootboard...

Have you tried to source boot boards lately

got supply chain experience?

cause it ain’t that easy with vendors to get parts

Now if you can source em

send em over cause I gots a belt grinder in my shop that’s hungry for em.

And yes it will screw the fit up completely too

Tell me I am Wrong …

 

[PCSB]

@Sidewinder good luck,

i'm out

Nice try cem, it's that time of year, eh!

 

[cem]

Nice try cem, it's that time of year, eh!

you know it brother , Amen

 

[BeiJiHu]

Okay, so we are all in agreement that heatstretching the shell is the correct option if you just want to make space and not mess with fit/ramp-angle?

Now how about instead of rallying up against the guy who "disagreed" with the bootfitter you actually try to help the OP to get this done correctly? If Sidewinder attempts heating himself it would surely be good to know:
what temperature, where exactly, for how long, (cool other parts with cooling spray?), what type/shape/thickness of padding, how to know what tension on the BOA is needed/too much.
You know, all the things a bootfitter certainly gets right be feel/experience, someone who never did it (maybe) doesn't...

@Near Nyquist
Atomic europe has all sizes in stock, ship in 1-2days. If you need em badly, have someone forward to California for you?

 

[KingGrump]

Now how about instead of rallying up against the guy who "disagreed" with the bootfitter you actually try to help the OP to get this done correctly? If Sidewinder attempts heating himself it would surely be good to know:
what temperature, where exactly, for how long, (cool other parts with cooling spray?), what type/shape/thickness of padding, how to know what tension on the BOA is needed/too much.
You know, all the things a bootfitter certainly gets right be feel/experience, someone who never did it (maybe) doesn't...

The best way for the OP to get it done correctly is to take the boots and his feet to an experienced boot fitter.

Heat molding/stretching a ski boot for the first time correctly is a bit more difficult than pounding on a key board.

 

[cem]

Okay, so we are all in agreement that heatstretching the shell is the correct option if you just want to make space and not mess with fit/ramp-angle?

Now how about instead of rallying up against the guy who "disagreed" with the bootfitter you actually try to help the OP to get this done correctly? If Sidewinder attempts heating himself it would surely be good to know:
what temperature, where exactly, for how long, (cool other parts with cooling spray?), what type/shape/thickness of padding, how to know what tension on the BOA is needed/too much.
You know, all the things a bootfitter certainly gets right be feel/experience, someone who never did it (maybe) doesn't...

@Near Nyquist
Atomic europe has all sizes in stock, ship in 1-2days. If you need em badly, have someone forward to California for you?

so being as atomic.com is out of stock of pretty much every base board other than the not easy to grind shock stopper ones, yet you say atomic has them all in stock that would suggest you work in a shop so have access to the B2b system

why not stop hiding behind the cat picture and admit who you are

which strikes me as someone who thinks grinding a baseboard is the way to fix everything

so who is the mystery boot wrecker??

 

[Near Nyquist]

so being as atomic.com is out of stock of pretty much every base board other than the not easy to grind shock stopper ones, yet you say atomic has them all in stock that would suggest you work in a shop so have access to the B2b system

why not stop hiding behind the cat picture and admit who you are

which strikes me as someone who thinks grinding a baseboard is the way to fix everything

so who is the mystery boot wrecker??

It’s an AI chat bot for boot fitting
Scouring the internet for data

 

[cem]

It’s an AI chat bot for boot fitting
Scouring the internet for data

you sir, win the internet today

 

[BeiJiHu]

Wow, this turned into a totally nonsensical discussion really fast and don't even know why. I totally agree with this:

Heat molding/stretching a ski boot for the first time correctly is a bit more difficult than pounding on a key board.

And Sidewinder already said in the first post he ideally wanted to see his bootfitter about it:

Not sure when I’d be able to get back to that shop or any other, either this year or well into next year,

Which i think is a waaay better idea than attempting your first punch on a >500$ shell.

Would be interesting to know why it angers the pros sooo much to suggest that, until then, you might be better off doing a DIY experiment on your cheap/replacable bootboard instead?
I mean, who knows, maybe taking a mm off under the forefoot fixes the space issue but he doesn't notice the "insane" +1mm ramp-angle? And even if not, he could take down the whole bootboard by that much and ski with a volume reducer for the time being (assuming Hawx XTD bootboards won't be back in stock again soon or Sidewinder isn't european and could buy one right away).

why not stop hiding behind the cat picture and admit who you are

You Sir, need glasses, as this clearly is a picture of a sleeping fox that i am hiding behind.