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Drill PSIA misconceptions about outside to outside drills.

Josh Matta

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But I will make a controversial point: PSIA is way to focused on the big-toe inside edge carving. Go to Paint Brush at JH and carve that big toe edge through the entire turn and there's good chance that you're catapulting off the hill. Rather most great Jackson Hole and other big mountain skiers are using some form of low-edge angle, drifting technique. Granted its not the same as competitive mogul skiing, just like racing technique has nothing to do with skiing a big mountain/all-mountain skiing. But learning how to feather, drift and use low angle/no angle edges is critical. Bode actually talked about it again tonight---"use just enough edge as you need". I watched PSIA instructors clinic at a big western mountain recently---the coaches had the hordes of instructors finish the turn with that big toe inside edge engaged all the way through and the downhill ski (little toe edge) raised off the ground. It looks great on the groomed (which is what they are striving for) and works on a race course...but not at places like JH and other steep big mountain areas. My point is that all-mountain technique draws from a lot of distinct ideals---learning how to drift and use the low angle edges, like competitive bump skiers is very important. Just as important as carving.

So I think when you watch people work on drills, anyone should realize that they are just that drills, no one is intending for someone to go down some steep off piste run carving just on their outside foot. One of the weakness in people making round turns all over the mountain is a lack of balance on the outside ski. Also you can balance on your outside ski with out "carving" a turn. I am not sure how directing balance to the outside ski is using more edge than what you need? Maybe you can explain that one more, one things for sure I would never want to take a ski lesson from bode on all mountain skiing. Also they were raising theirinside ski, no such thing as a downhill ski in ski turn, downhill ski only applies to traverses.

I entirely agree with your statement that people need to learn low angle drifting turns as well, but where we disagree is probably how much you to use them. Once someone is top end skier the vast majority of turns even on steeper off piste terrain, can be as carved as possible with min skidding. BTW I am not some PSIA drone making that statement, I ski off piste and tour a decent bit,and have been to couple IFSA semi final in big mountain comps. Racing has much more to do with all mountain skiing than bump skiing, No matter what the turn is, you should be balance more on your outside ski. Even the bump skiers you think are the pinnacle of skiing spend a ton of time working outside to outside ski drills.

So in closing yes to your point we need to be versatile, heck versatility is literally in the PSIA verbage, just sadly most of the instructors do not get that, and outside to outside balance is important, in fact its one of the most basic fundamentals in our sport.
 

oldschoolskier

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@Josh Matta Yes!!!!!

I’ll add that a lot of (lower end) instructors don’t know how the drills convert to actual skiing so a skier taking a lesson fails to notice or realize the importance of the drill and thinks them worthless.

IMHO this is something that must be shared to enhance the students experience.

Note: experienced skiers generally make the link, it is the less experienced and newer skiers that refer to.
 

François Pugh

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Regarding applicability of certain techniques to off-piste, back country, side country, steeps, what-ever:
- Just because you can't do it or are too scared to do it, doesn't mean others can't or won't do it.
- Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should.

IMHO, outside ski bias is the starting point, to be adjusted as needed for conditions and intent; e.g. preventing outside foot from sinking in powder, white-pass turns, etc.
 

JESinstr

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Since we are talking outside ski (vs downhill ski) a turn is assumed.

If gravity is the primary force for balance then we are applying pressure and balancing on the ski.
If centripetal (turning force) is the force of record then we are receiving pressure and balancing against ski.

Gravity is always present and constant and absent velocity, the default for balance.
Centripetal (circular travel) has to be born, nurtured and maintained. If not, it is gone.

A turn cycle is a dynamic mix of both.

IMO, the inside ski is rarely supplanted by centripetal force (pictures of incredible racing recoverys excepted). As the inside leg flexes and extends in support of the outside's edging process, It is always underneath and "gravity ready" which correctly positions it for the transition.
 

T-Square

Terry
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The inside ski is important to help shape the turn. A good way to play with this is to increase and decrease inside ski edge angle during a turn. (Roll the ankle, move the knee towards the hill, etc.) You should notice the turn tighten as you increase the angle and the ski bites into the snow. Conversely the the turn will widen as you decrease edge angle. This is a drill I use to help people become aware of how to have an active inside half. It also points out how using both skis allows more authority in your skiing.
 

PTskier

Been goin' downhill for years....
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Only two variations are needed. A pure locked-edge carve is great fun where speed and space permit. Otherwise almost the same movements without locking in the edge results in a brushed carve where the ski's tip pulls the skis & skier around in whatever radius the skier wants, controlled as Terry describes. Outside ski dominance is a great help when skiing on a base. The more weight on the outside ski, the more that ski will bend and turn the skier. Getting to a balanced stance is useful when skiing in deep snow.
 

Fuller

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As a surfer in a previous life I'm always tuned in to flow. Surfing throws the variables at you even more than skiing does but both rely on a wide range of techniques to handle them. When the general public looks at either sport they can differentiate the good from the bad. They don't know a thing about how to do it but they can tell...

The carve sets up the drift in an infinite variety of moves... it looks good, it feels good, it relies on fundamental skills and some imagination.
 

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