Patrol help needed

Discussion in 'General Skiing' started by Carolinacub, May 19, 2017.

  1. Carolinacub

    Carolinacub Yes thats a Cubs hat I'm wearing Skier

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    So this is a kind of a carry over from a thread I started on the epic site.
    The patrol I'm on here in WNC has an opportunity to get a snowmobile for the patrol this coming winter. The snowmobile is used and needs some repair but I've gotten an agreement put together with a local motorcycle shop to do our basic maintenance and upkeep.
    The main justification insurance wise will be access to all parts of the lift areas for lift evac and for a quicker response on the lower parts of our mountain directly from the patrol room.
    What I'm hoping to get from ya'll is pictures and descriptions of the connection between the snowmobile and the sled. and also a breakdown of what gear you normally will set up with. IE: trauma kits, evac kits , basic 1st aid etc.
    The other thing we will be needing is a training/refresher layout. we can start from scratch and make one hill specific but I really don't want to have to reinvent the wheel plus by starting from scratch I'm sure we'll miss something important.
    Any help is much appreciated.
     
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  2. skibob

    skibob Out on the slopes Skier

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    I have 0 useful info. but I just want to opine that this is an awesome use of this forum. Carry on.
     
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  3. T-Square

    T-Square Terry Moderator

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  4. Carolinacub

    Carolinacub Yes thats a Cubs hat I'm wearing Skier

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  5. Carolinacub

    Carolinacub Yes thats a Cubs hat I'm wearing Skier

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  6. T-Square

    T-Square Terry Moderator

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    That photo shows the problem with an open set up, snow spray on the patient.
     
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  7. pais alto

    pais alto me encanta el país alto Skier

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    We use snowmobiles (aka 'mo) pretty extensively where I work. The 'mos all have a hitch that we can drop the front rope handles of a Cascade tobaggan in to drag it around.

    BUT, and this is huge, we never hitch a toboggan with a patient directly to a 'mo. A patroller in the horns/handles of the toboggan takes a webbing strap that's tied to the 'mo (about 6 to 8 ft long) and wraps it around a handle of the toboggan and grips it so that it can be released instantly. The 'mo then pulls the toboggan with the 'troller in the handles. If a problem or an energency comes up the 'troller can instantly release the strap and take over the sled transport.

    We don't equip the 'mo with any medical supplies - those come from the patrol shack. In fact, we rarely use a 'mo to first-respond to accidents, largely because of hazard to the skiing customers. It's mostly to carry secondary response gear as needed, pull 'trollers with sleds through flat spots, and transport some customers and patrol.

    We have a training video and a refresher test that all operators must take annually.

    There's more but I have to go do something right now. I'll come back later on.
     
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  8. Carolinacub

    Carolinacub Yes thats a Cubs hat I'm wearing Skier

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    That's one of the issues I've been thinking about. If we use the tow bar that attaches directly to the sled then we can have a permanent spray skirt attached. But then we run into the issue of basically limiting ourselves to a dedicated toboggan for the snowmobile. If we run the one I posted above we can use any sled with it but the comfort level goes down for the patient.
    I'm trying to do all this as cheap as possible but I'm thinking we end up with both sled attachment systems.
     
  9. Carolinacub

    Carolinacub Yes thats a Cubs hat I'm wearing Skier

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    I see your point on hitching directly. Makes a ton of sense and after all safety is always the first concern. I'm looking forward to hearing more about how you do things.
     
  10. gwasson

    gwasson Booting up Skier

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    I'll see if I can get some pictures of the rig we use. It uses some angle iron welded with some rectangular metal bars that fit inside the toboggan handles. There is a hole drilled in the side of the handle that allows connection to the snowmobile with large "D" type clips (like the ones that hold the handle to the sled).

    Our area no longer allows snowmobiles on the hill while we are open except in the case of extreme emergency. You might want to double check with your insurance carrier about how you plan to use them. If a customer collides with a snowmobile it is probably a lost court case even if they are the ones that are grossly negligent.
     
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  11. squill

    squill Putting on skis Skier

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    +1

    I used to run chores for patrol (stupid mountain manager would give them their own sled) with a 30ft static rope tied around the second seat and handles, then pay out enough to tow a patroller/sled/patient or the whole thing to tow up to five patrollers on skis after sweeps. This was on a 800cc 4-stroke Yamaha FYI. I'd also sometimes have to tow 2 toboggans stacked and water up to the base of the upper mountain lift. Id strap one to the other and throw the front hand loops through a hitch similar to this.

    https://www.denniskirk.com/sports-parts-inc/hitch-kit-12-106.p519199.prd/519199.sku

    Anything like food/medical supplies, we would use an Otter sled with a slip cover. The best thing you can do though is learn how to turn them around on a slope w/o rolling it and understand that if you do roll it, you're never going to be able to stop it.
     
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  12. pais alto

    pais alto me encanta el país alto Skier

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    So, where I was going with this was don't hitch a sled with a patient in it to a 'mo. The driver can't really attend to a patient and drive at the same time, and there's the possibility of accidents or problems, the issue of spray, and the hazard to other skiers. As I said above, we respond with medical gear on skis from the patrol shack 99% of the time.

    As pointed out above, collisions between 'mos and skiers cause lawyering, so absolute minimal use during open hours is how we roll.

    I forget where the 'mo safe operating procedures video we got came from, but if you can't find one through NSP or NSAA or someone like that let me know and I'll make a call. We have experienced senior operators test new ones and everyone takes the safetyoperating review test and watches the video each season.

    As mentioned above, rolling a 'mo is a bad thing so training needs to include some serious focus on avoiding that. Also route selection. And digging holes in the snow with the treads. And maintenance, parking, fueling, and parking procedures.

    We have a couple of worn out toboggans that we use as 'work sleds' that we use to haul all kinds of 'boo, fences, ropes, signs, etc. Someone welded up some arms that attach to a stem that goes in the hitches, and a safety chain like any hitch trailer should have. The arms attach with D rings to the tabs that the toboggan handles attach to (the handles are removed). Those things look a lot like this:
    [​IMG]

    The hitch we use is this:
    [​IMG]

    Your state or county may have a skier safety act or similar legislation with requirements for ski area 'mo operation like lights, flags, noisemakers, etc. You should check that out.

    Snowmobiles are better thought of as pickup trucks rather than ambulances.

    What else?
     
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  13. Carolinacub

    Carolinacub Yes thats a Cubs hat I'm wearing Skier

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    So here's the latest in the quest for a snowmobile for our patrol.
    I found out yesterday that I actually have 5 different snowmobiles available to choose from. I haven't had an opportunity to head over to the storage area yet but hopefully will head over this weekend. My original impression was that the ones available were in dire need of repair but was informed by the owner that they are actually in pretty good shape mechanically and most of the work needed is cosmetic in nature.
    I spoke with the local motorcycle shop/company and they are offering to do maintenance and upkeep on a sponsorship basis. basically we'll be putting up a sign and allowing their name on the snowmobile.
    A couple of the local mountains do use snowmobiles so a select few from our patrol will initially go through their program and once we've done that their trainer will come to our mountain to help oversee our initial mountain specific training.
    Been doing the research on liability issues and insurance stuff. By bringing on the snowmobile we are actually going to be upgrading our lift evacuation program so the insurance company likes that. the downside for them is use of the machines while guests are on the mountain. basically that's a big no no unless is a full blown emergency situation.

    I appreciate the feedback and the information ya'll have been giving me. It has been a huge help. The biggest need for me now at least from the patroller point of view is training material. any pictures, pamphlets, schedules, refresher materials, etc would be a plus. as I said earlier, "I really don't want to reinvent the wheel". I'm still new to the forum so I'm not sure how pm's work or if I need to reach out to you with my e-mail. Let me know what you think the best way to swap this info is.

    Thanks again to all of you
    Paul
     
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  14. pais alto

    pais alto me encanta el país alto Skier

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    Let me see what I can find out about a training video, and I may be able to get a copy of the annual test that goes into the training files.
     
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  15. gwasson

    gwasson Booting up Skier

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    Our snowmobile training is the NSAA safety video, I would think your mountain management would be able to obtain a copy. I did a quick internet search and turned up this online version of it. It is the same video we refresh with.

     
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  16. pais alto

    pais alto me encanta el país alto Skier

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    ^^^That's the one!
     
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  17. Carolinacub

    Carolinacub Yes thats a Cubs hat I'm wearing Skier

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    Appreciate it guys, Any time you want to point me in the right direction please feel free.
     
  18. Dwight

    Dwight Out on the slopes Admin

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    We used to use a snowmobile for bottom travel when we couldn't ski a toboggan to the room. Dedicated toboggan attached with a homemade Y attachment similar to @pais alto picture is post #12. Then we moved to a UTV and now we use this.

    ranger.png
     
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  19. pais alto

    pais alto me encanta el país alto Skier

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    No way! That thing is awesome.
     
  20. Carolinacub

    Carolinacub Yes thats a Cubs hat I'm wearing Skier

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    suhweet
     

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