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Now that Epicski is closed

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Monique

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Philpug

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Oh, you know, Rorschach blot ...
Actually we prefer Modrian Blocks.

ba20d7c9a9db61be00e80cd84f3f0e3c.jpg


Or ski related...

logo%20look%20cycle.jpg
 

Bogatyr

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If you never visited the section, how would you know if it was a paradise? Ask @Mendieta and @Started at 53, a couple of intermediates who have posted that they were immediately accepted here. Please point to another member who had issues.
What I said in post 95 was not a comparison between Epic and this site and I don't quite understand your point. It was my general impression from Epic based on the 3.5 years I was an active member there. And while the " intermediate zone" was not of great interest to me I know that it got positive feedback from many sides.
 

Fishbowl

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I don't know if it is replaceable or irreplaceable, but I know that coming november thousands of intermediate skiers will feel the lack of support they were getting from this site.I think that Epic ski was the paradise of the intermediate skier- resort and travel guides and information, long and informative ski equipment threads (promoting mainly intermediate gear), the '' intermediate zone '' platform run by SMJ ( I never visited this section , my bad) and so on and so on.Many skiers will miss all this and yes it may be irreplaceable for them I don't know. Now , if you were a former racer or an expert BC skier you probably found the greater part of Epic a little boring , but for anyone else it was an usefull and informative platform.

My personal experience at Epic was the opposite, I felt that the Intermediate skier was an overlooked and forgotten contributer to the site. Too advanced for the Beginner Zone, but not able to hold their own with the instructors and coaches. Until the Intermediate Zone showed up, which really happened just a few months before the shutdown, there really was no place for the intermediate to ask a question and receive an appropriate response. Don't get me wrong, there was plenty of intermediate talk, especially about how to get terminal intermediates over the hump, but the talk was coming from the coaches and instructors rather than the intermediates themselves. Earlier this year there was an intermediate thread started about the benefits of a narrow stance. The first few responses were appropriate for the level of the OP, but the thread soon developed into a high level discussion of WC skiing technique and coaching. Good stuff, and on topic, but no longer appropriate to the intermediate looking for help improving his technique. I remember reading that thread and thinking how cool and Intermediate Zone would be.......................then the lights went out.
 

Bogatyr

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My personal experience at Epic was the opposite, I felt that the Intermediate skier was an overlooked and forgotten contributer to the site. Too advanced for the Beginner Zone, but not able to hold their own with the instructors and coaches. Until the Intermediate Zone showed up, which really happened just a few months before the shutdown, there really was no place for the intermediate to ask a question and receive an appropriate response. Don't get me wrong, there was plenty of intermediate talk, especially about how to get terminal intermediates over the hump, but the talk was coming from the coaches and instructors rather than the intermediates themselves. Earlier this year there was an intermediate thread started about the benefits of a narrow stance. The first few responses were appropriate for the level of the OP, but the thread soon developed into a high level discussion of WC skiing technique and coaching. Good stuff, and on topic, but no longer appropriate to the intermediate looking for help improving his technique. I remember reading that thread and thinking how cool and Intermediate Zone would be.......................then the lights went out.
Fishbowl, this is a very good point.The instructor 's part of the forum was not one its fortes and your example is spot - on. The greater part of the "regulars" there were competent and knowledgeable skiers , but the discussions turned (almost always) into endless repetitions of a given technical aspect beaten to death in long long threads. They were impossible to follow and soon they were loosing the interest of the OP or the person that came with a question. This IMO created the impression that this part of the forum was only for a very small circle of elite technical junkies if I may say so who were a little disconnected from the "reality" of the ordinary skier. When I said earlier that Epic was a paradise for the intermediate segment( which is almost 80% of the skiing public ) I gave examples with everything else , but the technical part of the forum.
 

agreen

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When I started with epic in 2010 I was an intermediate and I posted video for MA. On the 2nd page the discussion got heated re PMTS. I was totally lost but kept asking questions to the instructors. Some even pm'd me with amazing and easy to understand concepts. So I think the key for the intermediate OP is to keep "reeling them back in". Ill be posting some MA video here after my next Mammoth trip and will be very interested in seeing what transpires on this site in comparison.
 

Tricia

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So, while we're mourning the loss of an amazing library of content, lets not forget that we are stewards to curate this new library.
Good points all....
Still, to my point in post 97.
Lets join together to make sure that people of all levels of skiing are finding a good resource.

If you see an intermediate ask a question that devolves into something out of reach, be the solution.
Curate a good library
 

at_nyc

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When I started with epic in 2010 I was an intermediate and I posted video for MA. On the 2nd page the discussion got heated re PMTS. I was totally lost
While not necessary helpful to the person who post the question, others reading it may find it helpful. That's the nature of a DISCUSSION.

I never heard of PMTS until I read it on epic. I refer it to one of my colleague who was taught that way as a beginner. She found it helpful because she always felt out of pace with others due to her being taught in a different way.

...but kept asking questions to the instructors. Some even pm'd me with amazing and easy to understand concepts. So I think the key for the intermediate OP is to keep "reeling them back in".
That's true of ANY topic in pretty much all forums! It's up to the OP to keep the discussion on topic. If necessary, ask the mod to split the thread to keep it on track (granted, some forum have more sympathetic mod than others).

The lose of Epic is that many of those questions which had already been asked will have to be asked again anew. Not all posters are skilled at "managing" a discussion. They may get disappointed and give up.

Google was invented under the premise that 99% of the world's questions had already been asked. The answer is just out there somewhere. And google will find it for you. Imagine a world where 99% of the web sites goes out of business after some years, what would google find? Oh right, 404 error! :)
 

agreen

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So the nature of a discussion about algebra would consist of a few in the party segueing to quantum physics???
 

dbostedo

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at_nyc

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So the nature of a discussion about algebra would consist of a few in the party segueing to quantum physics???
If you have a few quantum physicists in the room, yes.

And if you start a discussion about algebra in a party where half of the party goers are physicist, you can pretty much expect it to happen.

Epic was started by a bunch of instructors. That WAS what made many of the advises so spot on. The drawback being the long drawn out technical discussion went right over the rest of our head starting on the 2nd page of EVERY technical thread.

Can you have spot on instructional advises without a large participation of professional instructors? I doubt it. That's why I never complained about those long drawn out discussions. I did what you did, "reel the discussion in" if necessary. Once I got my replies, the thread can have a life of its own without me.

There're a lot of instructors from epic migrated over here. I don't know if they'll stay if they don't get to discussion at length of boring technical fine points among themselves. I'd prefer they stay.
 

agreen

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Yes, I hope they come over as well. My personal favorite was theRusty. The knowledge of a quantum physicist but great at explaining algebra!!!
 

Mendieta

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There're a lot of instructors from epic migrated over here.

Nice! Few people realize the value in interacting with instructors when they are not on the hill. The more the merrier! And, to put things in perspective, we have had a fair amount of really high level discussion here. My personal favorites are:

  • The Infinity Move. This one synthesizes years and years of previous discussion, discovery, trial, error, discovery, instruction. It inherits to a large extent a lot of what discussed in previous years in Epic and other forums. This is a great example of what @Tricia was referring to, as curating the new library.
  • T.E.P.P. This thread gives a very holistic view of skiing, where technique is one of four important elements, but there are other aspects that need to be in sync. Particularly, equipment. is obviously a big, if not the biggest focus here, through reviews and advise.
Both of these started back in 2015, well before the closing of Epic, by two highly recognized instructors ( @Bob Barnes and @bud heishman ). So, to be sure, good stuff has happened here in that front for a long while, and I, for one, love seeing new contributors.

:pug:
 

oldschoolskier

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I find that on Pugski advice given be it directed to beginner, intermediate or advanced is all done in good nature without egos involved on who gives the best and most detailed advice.

Tricia and Phil have made this a common ground for all to share, egos left at the door.

This is what makes this family.
 

T-Square

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When I started with epic in 2010 I was an intermediate and I posted video for MA. On the 2nd page the discussion got heated re PMTS. I was totally lost but kept asking questions to the instructors. Some even pm'd me with amazing and easy to understand concepts. So I think the key for the intermediate OP is to keep "reeling them back in". Ill be posting some MA video here after my next Mammoth trip and will be very interested in seeing what transpires on this site in comparison.

As an instructor, trainer, and an engineer I've been guilty of being overly technical in explanations. It is a common fault of a lot of instructors. Instructors need to remember that most people don't want or need a technical answer to a skiing question. The student wants and needs a practical answer that meets their needs at the moment. We need to couch our responses with that in mind. It takes a lot of experience to see a complex problem and provide a simple and effective solution. Trying to do that is good for all.

So, if you see an answer that is very complex and hard to understand, ask for for a simpler explanation. Keep us on our toes.

I'll simplify with an example. When teaching kids to make beginning turns I don't go into explaining how to move or anything like that. All I say is come here or go there while pointing and they do it and learn.
 

Read Blinn

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As an instructor, trainer, and an engineer I've been guilty of being overly technical in explanations. It is a common fault of a lot of instructors. Instructors need to remember that most people don't want or need a technical answer to a skiing question. The student wants and needs a practical answer that meets their needs at the moment. We need to couch our responses with that in mind. It takes a lot of experience to see a complex problem and provide a simple and effective solution. Trying to do that is good for all.

So, if you see an answer that is very complex and hard to understand, ask for for a simpler explanation. Keep us on our toes.

I'll simplify with an example. When teaching kids to make beginning turns I don't go into explaining how to move or anything like that. All I say is come here or go there while pointing and they do it and learn.

When speaking to each other, though (which is what happened in those threads), instructors would naturally speak the common language. Those threads hashed out philosophical and theoretical issues inherent to the discipline. The OP was just a prompt, in most cases. That doesn't mean the OP's needs needn't be addressed, not at all. It's just that the discussion — the argument — was between instructors, and that discussion was of necessity jargonish. Epic wasn't so much a service as a place to talk. It was great when the OP could get something out of it.
 

Fishbowl

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I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, but is it OK to reference PMTS on PugSki? I am not necessarily a PMTS advocate, but did (re)learn how to ski with side cut using HH and Litos books and DVDs. As most techniques are common to all skiing, I could frame the question using generic terms, but it makes more sense to reference the system in which I learned. It's no big deal, just asking for clarity so I don't commit a faux pas
 
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