New skis for spring skiing and icy conditions

[Guy in Shorts]

The new Volkl Mantra is my icy to soft daily driver. Took the ski out for an end of the day demo on a Sunday three weeks ago when the mountain was a trashed icy mess. Ski held fine on an icy Outer Limits. At 96 under foot it is my narrowest ski.

 

[silverback]

I like slalom skis in firm and slushy snow.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Not for me - narrow skis do just fine in daily slush if they are firm enough to not get deflected. Firm enough to not get deflected by slush and damp enough to not get rattled by frozen ruts and frozen coral - Redster X9 is my pick before anything amongst the Vantage series.....

I like slalom skis in firm and slushy snow.

I've been skiing on my (new to me) FIS slalom Redsters this season in all conditions. They are made for ice, but I'm loving them on everything so far. I've tried my other skis but end going back to these every time. It feels odd to be skiing around on race skis with gate deflectors when it's spring slush. Not too many people do that around here. I didn't grow up a racer so this is not natural for me, but I've fallen in love with these skis and nothing else makes me as happy.

But ... being one of the few on the mountain, I'm suffering from embarrassment that I've got the wrong skis on. I feel like a middle school girl who wore matching socks with her new Christmas sweater, and all the other girls were in stockings. That happened to me as a kid; I was ridiculed and I guess it's coming back to haunt me now.

It's those damn gate deflectors

So thanks for confirming that there are those here who also like their slalom skis on everything. Well, pretty much everything; I suspect they are dangerous on two week old nasty massive ice bumps. Are they?

 

[cantunamunch]

I
So thanks for confirming that there are those here who also like their slalom skis on everything. Well, pretty much everything; I suspect they are dangerous on two week old nasty massive ice bumps. Are they?

Strictly speaking, my post above refers to the SX, not the SL ski, but I have campaigned SL skis in slush-on-slab conditions for long enough that I am with you entirely.

Dangerous? Naw. Well, maybe if you prang them by stuffing the tips into the tops, or if you don't sharpen them.

Seriously, slush-on-ice conditions can do a number on your tune. If you're keeping the edges clean yourself, do check flatness with a true bar, like every 3-5 days. Especially in super-rainy weeks when most of the slush is ...simply washed off.

 

[slowrider]

Wear those SL with pride LF. You earned it with hard work and dedication.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Thanks, guys. I need a true-bar.

These skis came with an unknown tune. They are/were incredibly sharp. I want to maintain that same tune.

I took them to my usual shop, which has a race department, to measure the bevels and tell me what they are. The guy there didn't use a measuring device. He just looked at them across the room and said 1 and 3. I don't think so.

I repeated that I wanted him to MEASURE the bevels. He marked a spot on the side with a magic marker and rubbed it with a 3 degree file guide with a stone on it; the marker came off and he proclaimed the side was a 3. I've got a 3 degree file guide, but I don't trust what he did given his sloppy approach.

He started to hand the skis back to me, but I asked him again to check the base bevel. He put something on the base and rubbed his finger across it and the base of the metal and said .75, then said well maybe .5.

Is a measuring device for figuring this out expensive? What's it called? I'm concerned about sharpening these with my 3 degree file guide. I want to keep the same tune. It's served me well, but I've waited too long and need to start doing the appropriate maintenance on these things.

 

[KingGrump]

So thanks for confirming that there are those here who also like their slalom skis on everything. Well, pretty much everything; I suspect they are dangerous on two week old nasty massive ice bumps. Are they?

No. They are fine in the ice bumps. Round out the line a bit and everything will be fine.

I posted on Epic couple season back about liking the FIS SL as one of my favorite spring skis. Got a bit of flack on it by few posters. Saw a pair on the feet of an Okemo instructor in the photos of the Mother's day gathering a year or two later.

The tune on my last two new pairs Atomic FIS SL were both 1/3.

 

[cantunamunch]

Thanks, guys. I need a true-bar.

Yes.

He started to hand the skis back to me, but I asked him again to check the base bevel. He put something on the base and rubbed his finger across it and the base of the metal and said .75, then said well maybe .5.

What you got was about a 7.5 or 8/10 check. This is not a bad thing - one has to go pretty extreme to get significantly better real world accuracy. As in "somewhere between machine-shop-level and laboratory level"

Is a measuring device for figuring this out expensive?

Yes.

@SlideWright did threads on a magnetic method and a couple of true-bar methods. Side bevel is generally as-set-by-the-file-guide.

 

[Atomicman]

Whatever you get , put a 3 degree side edge on them.......excel on ice, no downside in slush!

 

[LiquidFeet]

I was thinking the side bevel could be a 4. Does a racer ever do that? Is it legal?

 

[cantunamunch]

I was thinking the side bevel could be a 4. Does a racer ever do that? Is it legal?

Yes they do that. Sometimes even more.

It's possible, but not likely - the method you referred to above as 'sloppy' is actually pretty decent at catching such things if the tester is looking for them.

 

[LiquidFeet]

What made me think he was sloppy was him declaring the tune was 1 and 3 before he ever took the skis in his hands. He had no idea what the tune was, but proclaimed this with total authority and confidence, looking me in the eye and assuming I'd accept that.

Why would he think he knew what the bevels were when it could just as easily be something other than 1 and 3? Why did he think I would accept a guess as a certainty? I think he simply did not want to check. There was no business in the shop, he and the owner were just standing around talking as I walked in, and I said I'd buy a file guide if the side bevel didn't match what I already owned, or a ceramic stone with a different grit, or something for their trouble. The owner told him to check the bevels for me, but he walked away leaving this guy to "check" as he saw fit. My residual anger against the guy is showing in this post. My trust in the shop has dropped somewhat.

I now get that he did an OK job checking after I kept pushing him to do more than just guess. But if I take my skis in for them to do the base bevel next season I'm not sure I can trust them to do what I ask, given this guy's attitude. He works back there where they work on the skis. There are other workers who do tunes that I do trust. I don't feel comfortable saying that I don't want this guy touching my skis. I bet they have a pro bevel guide in the back somewhere that he chose not to use. It's a good shop that services tons of racers.

I'm still calling his thinking "sloppy."

 

[cantunamunch]

In case it wasn't clear, I completely understood where you were coming from - I'm just going through the counter-nuances of what happens when it's done with care and attention.

 

[silverback]

I ski mine with a 0.5/3 tune and I keep them sharp. More base bevel would make them better in moguls but they are not bad as is. If you don't like the tips you could get blizzard/ Nordica or stockli or volkl or some years of heads or rossignol/dynastar.

 

[pack21]

Saturday, i skied for the first time in spring slush my old school skis Atomic betarider, 68 of waist and R = 20m, and i was surprised with them doing carving in speed at long and medium turns, even on tight piste full of slush bumps, they conveyed me super stability and confidence, i always heard that in slush it would be better to have a wider waist.

I felt that this skis cut all the slush bumps like a knife in butter, and this fact gave me the confidence to accelerate downhill, and never felt any instability, so i'm confused.

I don't understand much of ski structure, so i would be grateful that someone could explain to me why i liked Atomic betarider so much in slush.


I'm looking what skis to buy for the new season, skis for all conditions, and now as i said above i'm confused.

 

[slowrider]

If there's a base under the slush then narrow skis work well. The other factor would be the guy on top of the skis.

 

[pack21]

If there's a base under the slush then narrow skis work well. The other factor would be the guy on top of the skis.

Yes there was a good base underneath the slush. Yes, i learned to ski with narrow waists, with these Elan HCX Waist of 63 and R = 11.5 they were good teachers, but have speed limit, from a certain speed they start to become unstable, contrary to the Atomic betarider that give a blast when the piste is perfect.

I was looking waists in the order of 85, Blizzard Quattro 8.4, Fischer MTN 86, Head V10, RTM 84, Salomon XDR 84 and Atomic Vantage 83 .... but now i'm in doubt if i should keep the idea of the 85 or reduce to 80, also like to start trying a bit of off piste. But the most important thing is that they must deal well with ice and slush.

Here on tricky slopes of Cantabria Spain is very rare to see skis above the 85, 75-80 is the average, even in easy pistes of Andorra and Alps, it's also rare to see waists above 85.

Here my painted Elan HCX R=11.5 W=63, they also deal well with slush but slower than the Atomic

Some days ago i tried in hardpack and slush these Rossignol from a friend, and it was a horrible experience, totally unsteady at speed, maybe because they are too short for my 1.80 meters high. I just liked them to swing and pivot, but not for carving blasts.

 

[François Pugh]

The turn radius has a lot to do with ability to perform well in spring crud. With the longer turn radius, you can put them on edge and slice through it without the skis trying to turn too sharp. Stiffness matters too; a stiff ski isn't easily deflected. Length aids in helping out with fore-aft balance issues. Stability at high speed is a whole other subject.

 

[BMC]

Australian conditions are almost constantly going through freeze/thaw, with a typical day starting with bone rattling refrozen groomers, and ending in slush.

The best all round skis I have experienced for Oz are the Blizzard Brahmas. Great carving on firm snow. Excellent all over the mountain as things soften.

 

[slowrider]

I enjoy a ski with a 84mm waist. Carves well on hard pack yet still provides a good platform on softer snow conditions. Skied some 105mm waist skis in soft conditions yesterday, it became tiresome towards the end of the day. Still prefer 70s mm waist myself.