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Need Recommendation: Women intermediate skis ~150cm

Plai

Paul Lai
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My wife (5'0", 152cm, 115#) has been skiing for a handful of years and last year started venturing out into blues and trying to ski more parallel. She skis at Mt Rose (Tahoe) and she stays on groomers.

Yesterday she made a comment that the tracked out snow on a long traverse/cat track was bouncing her and making it hard to trust her skis. She's on Fischer Aspire RS10 140cm(?) 70mm which are cap construction, beginner skis that are just a little nicer than rentals.
https://www.the-house.com/8940fiabf9r1wb12zz-fischer-ski-packages.html
https://www.evo.com/outlet/ski-packages/fischer-aspire-fp9-white-skis-rs-10-bindings-womens

She made the same comments about going downhill through the tracked out groomer. She also isn't going very fast, so isn't able to just blast through the crud.

I'm starting to think maybe she has outgrown the softness of her skis. But, of course, she doesn't want to upgrade. She likes how light her ski are.

What should I look for to help figure out if she's need something stiffer and/or heavier?
Are there any notable women's intermediate skis that should be on my radar? Yeah I've still got to go through @Tricia posts.

My thoughts are stay under 80mm waist, softer flex and maybe ~150cm length.

Anything else I should consider?
 

Tricia

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Consider the Absolute Joy from Head.
Its fairly strong and stable but really light weight.
 

Analisa

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The sensation your wife described sounds super similar to my experience with my first off-piste oriented skis. They were short & easy to turn - great for easing down the mountain with control, but I stopped making progress after that. I thought I was a timid skier, but I realized that I'd found the skis' limit and that I was going to need more stability - with a little width, length, and a change in materials (which all adds up to weight - a double whammy considering I keep a touring binding on them).

I would bet your wife is at a similar point. With a 140 length, cap construction, 70 waist, (and possibly a foam core? Seems to be conflicting info or changes year to year), your wife's on one of the more beginner-y skis out there. If she's skiing blues, progressing into parallel turns, and staying in control & on her feet throughout the day, I'd say she leans intermediate and needs a ski built to support a little bit of speed and confidence, not just a pizza party. I think the Absolute Joy is a great call, and I'd add the Salomon Astra or Cirra, Atomic Vantage 77, Rossi Temptation 77, and Blizzard Black Pearl 78 (or last year's Cheyenne) to the consideration list.

If she's hesitant, definitely take a few weekends to demo. I had a hunch for what ski would serve me best, but it meant adding 10cm to the length and 7mm underfoot, which felt like a gamble to just buy and mount, but they felt right from the first run on a demo day, which sealed the deal. I ended up progressing more in the first month or so on the new skis than I had the entire season prior.
 
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Paul Lai
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Thanks @Tricia and @Analisa for your replies. Thanks for confirming my gut feeling of the situation and possible category of solution (~77mm waisted, intermediate ski).

Consider the Absolute Joy from Head.
Its fairly strong and stable but really light weight.

I'm wondering if the Head Absolut Joy would be "too much" ski. This article http://skicanadamag.com/cruisers-test-2017/ seems to think the Head Absolut Joy is for stronger skiers. Or, is your argument that the ski will make the skier into a stronger skier?

I had a hunch for what ski would serve me best, but it meant adding 10cm to the length and 7mm underfoot, which felt like a gamble to just buy and mount, but they felt right from the first run on a demo day, which sealed the deal. I ended up progressing more in the first month or so on the new skis than I had the entire season prior.

Your experience has been my thought, and my wife's reaction. Right now, my wife's skis are about nose high for her. The suggestion of an eyebrow height ski as a next step is frightening. The second time it was suggested as a rental/demo, and her response was a tepid "ok".

So, now I've got a green light to find a place to rent skis in this category. I'm thinking there isn't much in the South Bay (of SF) that would fit the bill.

@Tricia any suggestions in the N Lake Tahoe/Reno area that would rent/demo skis in this category?
 

Analisa

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I used Ski Canada's reviews for guidance, but sometimes have found them to exaggerate the differences between skis. I was really intimidated by their review of the Backland 109s, but ended up getting on a pair at a demo day. I was surprised that I liked them, and even more so that I could even control them in a size that was a stretch for me. (I'm not the med-heavy weight cliff hucker the review makes them out to fit, and an in-betweener in terms of power/finesse). They had more charge than something like the Pandoras, which were the narrowest & lightest in that review set, but not to a point where it was surprising given the difference in waist/core/weight. Other reviews have a much gentler take on the Absolut Joys https://www.skis.com/Head-Absolut-Joy-Womens-Skis-with-9-SLR-Bindings/452806P,default,pd.html They note they're a bit stiffer than the Rossi 77s, but still not overwhelming for a true beginner. The Powder7 site also classifies it as more of a beginner ski.

A thing I particularly like about the skis.com reviews is that they provide 6 steps in their availability range and get a little more nuanced about the range of ability level a ski can cover. From what you've said about your wife's skiing, I'd assume she's a single blue square intermediate. With the Rossi 77s, Joys, and Cirras, she'd fall in the middle of the range, probably able to ski it confidently, but also some room to grow into an advanced intermediate. Something like the Astra, Blizzard Cheyenne/Pearl or Atomic Cloud 9 start at the intermediate level and have capacity for a little more room for growth. I'd demo a small step up first, and then explore the second if it goes well - especially if she skis often.
 

AmyPJ

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The Absolut Joy is definitely not too much ski.
 
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Plai

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@Analisa @AmyPJ Thanks for the course correction.

With the Rossi 77s, Joys, and Cirras, she'd fall in the middle of the range, probably able to ski it confidently, but also some room to grow into an advanced intermediate. Something like the Astra, Blizzard Cheyenne/Pearl or Atomic Cloud 9 start at the intermediate level and have capacity for a little more room for growth. I'd demo a small step up first, and then explore the second if it goes well - especially if she skis often.

@Analisa That's a great plan. My wife skis about 12 days a season. I don't think this as "often", but will see if she can make the step up from rentals/demos.
 

AmyPJ

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Here is anther decent round up of women’s skis in that category:

https://www.proskilab.com/test-ski-2018-womens-skis
I loved the Nordica Astral 84 last season when I tested them.
I would also consider the new Blizzard Black Pearl 88 for her. They are a SOLID ski for an intermediate to progress on. I am finding that they absolutely are a dream in a huge mixed bag of conditions.
 

Miller

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My wife is a solid intermediate skier. For the past few years she has been on a pair of Dynastar Exclusive Skis. This year she replaced them with a pair of the Nordica Astral 78. So far, she really likes them. Much lighter than her old skis, but more stable.

She is 5' 1" and 125 lbs. She got the ski in the 144.
 
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My wife is a solid intermediate skier. For the past few years she has been on a pair of Dynastar Exclusive Skis. This year she replaced them with a pair of the Nordica Astral 78. So far, she really likes them. Much lighter than her old skis, but more stable.

She is 5' 1" and 125 lbs. She got the ski in the 144.

@Miller thanks for the clue. Hadn't found the Astral 78 yet. Will add that to the list.
 

Tricia

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Consider the Absolute Joy from Head.
Its fairly strong and stable but really light weight.

I'm wondering if the Head Absolut Joy would be "too much" ski. This article http://skicanadamag.com/cruisers-test-2017/ seems to think the Head Absolut Joy is for stronger skiers. Or, is your argument that the ski will make the skier into a stronger skier?
The Total Joy would be too much but not the Absolute.
The recommendations for the Astral are also solid.
Stick with options that have a small-ish turning radius with a waist somewhere between 76-84
 
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So... After much discussion and investigation...

Colorwise the following are out
Absolut for being white
Vantage pink
Astal too colorful
Temptation for too green
Black Pearl 78 ...

So, what's left
Salomon Cira (black is her favorite color)
Blizzard Alight 7.7
Armada Victa 83
Head Super Joy

Flexwise, it appears that the Cira was stiffest. The others are much more moderate, friendlier.

The Heads and Blizzard Alight have the least rocker, whereas Victa has more (much like a Black Pearl).

So, I'm wondering: target more or less rocker? In my experience, skis with less rocker have been easier to turn/tip/initiate the turn. This seems to be counter some of the wisdom shared on site (and that of one sales guy). (Maybe I'm "special" :)

Most of the places I've talked with don't have these skis for rent, much less demo.
So, I'll likely have to by on specs, and maybe flex.

Thanks for reading along....
 

AmyPJ

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So... After much discussion and investigation...

Colorwise the following are out
Absolut for being white
Vantage pink
Astal too colorful
Temptation for too green
Black Pearl 78 ...

So, what's left
Salomon Cira (black is her favorite color)
Blizzard Alight 7.7
Armada Victa 83
Head Super Joy

Flexwise, it appears that the Cira was stiffest. The others are much more moderate, friendlier.

The Heads and Blizzard Alight have the least rocker, whereas Victa has more (much like a Black Pearl).

So, I'm wondering: target more or less rocker? In my experience, skis with less rocker have been easier to turn/tip/initiate the turn. This seems to be counter some of the wisdom shared on site (and that of one sales guy). (Maybe I'm "special" :)

Most of the places I've talked with don't have these skis for rent, much less demo.
So, I'll likely have to by on specs, and maybe flex.

Thanks for reading along....
Topsheet is the least of the considerations. They are usually covered in snow anyway. The Temptation and Astral are such solid options. I can't comment on the Cira, Victa 83, or the Alight, as I've not skied them. I've skied the Victa 87, and it would be too much ski for her, I think. Temptation 84? Last year's can be found for a song and are black with a bit of blue. http://www.powder7.com/Rossignol-Te..._c7PK-3rdpTMJZ3gUZKMjpx3OFdtHbJoaAlG7EALw_wcB
Also, the Super Joy is probably too much ski, it skis very much like the Total Joy.
 
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Plai

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Looks like I missed my edit window.... Remembered to look at Fischer and Volkl.... adding them to the list and and adding more questions.

So, what's left
Salomon Cira (black is her favorite color)
Blizzard Alight 7.7
Armada Victa 83
Head Super Joy
Fischer Koa 77
Volkl Flair 76 and 78

Flexwise, it appears that the Cira was stiffest. The others are much more moderate, friendlier.

The Heads and Blizzard Alight have the least rocker, whereas Victa has more (much like a Black Pearl).

The Volkl Flair 76 seems like not enough of a step up, and the 78 a little too much. Anyone got a feel for the friendliness of their flex?

I'm also wondering if the Super Joys also are not enough of a step up.

So, I'm wondering: target more or less rocker? In my experience, skis with less rocker have been easier to turn/tip/initiate the turn. This seems to be counter some of the wisdom shared on site (and that of one sales guy). (Maybe I'm "special" :)

Most of the places I've talked with don't have these skis for rent, much less demo.
So, I'll likely have to by on specs, and maybe flex.

Thanks for reading along....
 
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Paul Lai
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Topsheet is the least of the considerations

I might agree with you on that, but how does one convince her? Even with an "engineering" background, that's what she brought up.

For me, it'll be easier just to go through skis until she figures it out.
 

AmyPJ

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I might agree with you on that, but how does one convince her? Even with an "engineering" background, that's what she brought up.

For me, it'll be easier just to go through skis until she figures it out.
Show her the Temptation 84 that I linked above. It's not like buying a car in the color you like-they all drive the same, except one's blue and one's red. (I know, I'm preaching to the choir here.) Ski performance and fun factor is what counts, and once you're out there, you don't stare at the topsheets while skiing, and if you do, you're going to have a bad time ogwink
 
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Show her the Temptation 84 that I linked above

Link forwarded.... Now will she bite?

I've also been thinking about the car analogy. I've been pondering how to ask, if skis were like cars, what ride feel would you target?
Toyota. ... Blizzard .. relatively light, very usable, not as lot of top end (in this class)
Subaru ... ???? ... Can go most places, lighter weight, but not the most comfortable.
BMW ... ???? ... Performance oriented and relatively smooth, but a little edgy
Mercedes ...???... Smooth, heavy, and not too nimble

Where would the Absolut, Astral, and Temptation fit in the analogy?
Maybe an Acura/Lexus ... Lighter nimble, with the necessary comforts?
 

AmyPJ

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Link forwarded.... Now will she bite?

I've also been thinking about the car analogy. I've been pondering how to ask, if skis were like cars, what ride feel would you target?
Toyota. ... Blizzard .. relatively light, very usable, not as lot of top end (in this class)
Subaru ... ???? ... Can go most places, lighter weight, but not the most comfortable.
BMW ... ???? ... Performance oriented and relatively smooth, but a little edgy
Mercedes ...???... Smooth, heavy, and not too nimble

Where would the Absolut, Astral, and Temptation fit in the analogy?
Maybe an Acura/Lexus ... Lighter nimble, with the necessary comforts?
Toyota=Astral
BMW=Temptation
Absolut=Subaru
Others may disagree. That's how I'd classify them. :D
The Temptation is a really good ski to grow with, with a nice sidecut to learn to turn. (I am still thinking about picking up a pair for myself, I skied them a lot last season, as I'd grab them out of the demo shop at work and they were just easy, yet solid and stable.)
The Astral is the same, with a more versatile sidecut/shape for a few ventures off-piste/into powder.
Can't comment on the Absolut except that a lot of "lower"-level intermediates like them.
 

Analisa

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I wouldn't get too caught up in the details & personalities for a beginner ski. If the manufacturer and ski shops mark it as an option for beginners, they should all stand out for being easy and forgiving. The Cira might hand flex a little firmer, but as Solly's most entry level non-composite ski, I doubt they'd put something on the market that would overwhelm a beginner. Looking at some of the reviews for it, it looks like it works as a first pair of skis up through a progressing intermediate. I wouldn't count them out yet, especially if they've got your wife's interest.

Looking at how the Victa, Great Joy, and Temptation 84 are rated by retailers, I'd say those are the more advanced options on your list. (Victas for Kevlar in their core, Temptations for Basalt. However, the Temptation 77 and 80 don't include basalt and would skew more beginner friendly.)

I totally resonate with her preference on top sheets. The names and styles on women's skis can be a little juvenile, and it's much worse at the beginner-intermediate level. I feel like they design men's graphics and then do a takedown for boys, but for females, graphics are designed for girls skis and then applied to women's.

As for rocker & camber, it impacts the style of the ski more than it impacts the ease. More rocker in the front will make it a little more versatile for trying off-piste terrain or playing in the powder on the edge of the groomer. The Victas have more rocker since they sit with a different class than the rest of the options - more inline with a Solly Myriad 85, Atomic Vantage 85, and maybe a Rossi Sassy 7 - fairly even to your list in terms of being demanding (especially the Vantage), but supports a bit of off-piste exploring (or those dump days where the groomers don't stay groomed for long). A flat tail helps lock in a turn, rockered tails are a little more slarve-y.

And then lastly, I'd empower her to make the final decision. At the very least, walk through the 1-8 leveling guides and talk to a knowledgeable ski salesperson about options. I'd bet their recs are similar to their shortlist, but they may be able to ask the right questions that unlock whether she should err on the easier or harder side of that list or nuances on how they feel. I notice that it's not uncommon for families to have a "gear guy" who's been in the sport longer and more interested in the construction & engineering. They love their wives/daughters/partners, want them to love the sport as much as they do, and know the right gear is a part of that. They can sometimes be influenced by 2 biases. They can be used to a men's "measuring stick" for speed & power and err on a softer, easier ski even though the scale is different for small women and the women's specific skis account for it. Or they can sometimes have an "I like the invictus, so you should get a victa"?mindset. Downside of being smart and helpful ;-) A great shop attendant (might take a few visits or asking around) talking directly to your wife should get you a second opinion - which is nice if you don't have demo options. I remember reading an thread on women and demoing and remember @pugski and @Tricia phrasing it as encouraging women to "own their ski experience." And I agree - the women having the most fun are the ones who speak to what they're looking for and what they aspire to when they ski - whether it's cruising, high speed carving, powderhounding, experiment, and leverage the experts (which definitely includes you).
 

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