Mountain Biking 2017!

[Monique]

slow gear at high cadence is hard....its much much harder on flat pedals.

See! That's why! (see photo above - <3 my Deity pedals)

@BLT - I can go pretty slowly and maintain balance. Actually, I'm famous for this, because I'm so damn slow in general. My friend's "compliment" to me one day, while passing me - "Wow, I could never ride up these rocks as slowly as you do!" I just don't enjoy being in my granny gear.

 

[BLT]

See! That's why! (see photo above - <3 my Deity pedals)

@BLT - I can go pretty slowly and maintain balance. Actually, I'm famous for this, because I'm so damn slow in general. My friend's "compliment" to me one day, while passing me - "Wow, I could never ride up these rocks as slowly as you do!" I just don't enjoy being in my granny gear.

I tell my kids that same thing! Sounds like your technique is good. I switched to flat pedals last year for rides with the kids. It really helped my technique. This year I've been using clipless which has not helped. I think I'll switch back to flat pedals for my next ride, hopefully Wednesday.

 

[Josh Matta]

yeah if your having trouble climbing things, then using flat pedals will not help. Its like say I am not good on hardpack so Ill get better by skiing it on fat skis.

 

[Monique]

yeah if your having trouble climbing things, then using flat pedals will not help.

What? Flats gave me the confidence to commit to uphill obstacles.

 

[Monique]

I have to walk some of the dowdy draw rocky section - the part from the very top down to the creek crossing (where they put in the new bridge).

I remember enjoying that, but it's been a few years. Never had to try it uphill.

A little bit of lift serviced, even the super easy stuff, will give you a lot of bang for the buck when you go back to stuff like that.

 

[BLT]

What? Flats gave me the confidence to commit to uphill obstacles.

Same with me! I switched to flats for the slow uphills. I'm hoping to ride Marshall Mesa/Dowdy Draw Wed morning and will switch back to flats for the ride.

 

[Tom K.]

It's a two-step progression:

1. Switching to flats, as noted, can give you the confidence to commit to uphill obstacles. Then,

2. Switching back to clipless will give you more power and control to combine with your new, flats-inspired confidence to conquer even MORE uphill obstacles.

As an alternative, Shimano multi-release cleats are almost as easy to get out of as flats. SH-56, as opposed to the common SH51s. I'm always surprised how few riders, or even shops, know of these.

 

[Monique]

It's a two-step progression:

1. Switching to flats, as noted, can give you the confidence to commit to uphill obstacles. Then,

2. Switching back to clipless will give you more power and control to combine with your new, flats-inspired confidence to conquer even MORE uphill obstacles.

As an alternative, Shimano multi-release cleats are almost as easy to get out of as flats. SH-56, as opposed to the common SH51s. I'm always surprised how few riders, or even shops, know of these.

I used M647s (or something very similar) for a while. Benefits of both, sort of. I could avoid clipping in for an obstacle - or if I didn't get the cleat to catch immediately, I still had traction to pedal.

But when I got my downhill rig with the flats, I quickly realized how much better I liked that setup.

Flats with traction pins and a properly grippy rubber sole, like a 5.10 shoe, are surprisingly "sticky," all the way through the stroke. You quickly learn to "curve" your foot around the pedal or put pressure against it as it's going through the back half of the stroke. And they've saved my butt plenty because my shoes actually grip the rock when I lose my balance and stick a foot out.

Where do you find the added power and control in clipless pedals?

 

[Josh Matta]

you act as if all clipless shoes can not grip rocks....there are tons that are ankle breaks cough sidis(why the hell anyone would buy them is beyond me). and tons that actually grip rocks like the entire Mavic line.

avoid clipping in for an obstacle only makes the obstacle worse, even though your perception of it might seem easier, its not easy to have the foot not connected.

anywhere where you have uphil ledges or losses of traction can be cleared easier with clipless, in some case outside of some of the best trials riders it can only be cleared on clipless.

It also helps on DH with out your feet getting knocked around being able to pedal quickly with no back pressure on the pedals. There is reason every EWS winner ever and the vast majority of DH WC wins have been done on clipless. If flats were better for going DH more people would use them at the elite level at these level. You can subjectively cling to your flat pedals all you want, but objectively when given the the skills/equipment to clip in and out quickly it is better for basically any non Dirt jump. non trials situation.

 

[Lauren]

My friend's "compliment" to me one day, while passing me - "Wow, I could never ride up these rocks as slowly as you do!"

DH passes me on uphills all the time after being behind me for a bit...always says, sorry I can't climb that slow. Ugh.

But, slow and steady wins the race right?

 

[Monique]

@Josh Matta - I do this for fun, and flats are more fun for me. Don't really care who's doing what to win races.

 

[AmyPJ]

I ride flats, too and have gained a lot more confidence as a result. Heck, even the Trek Dirt Series recommends we arrive with flats to work on our skills. Considering I'm ALWAYS working on my skills, I'll continue to ride with flats. (Deity composite with 5/10 Freeriders.) I'm not racing, so I don't really care if I'm setting any speed records, and FWIW I rode faster last season with flats than the season before clipless, at least according to Strava. Not all of us have testosterone coursing through our veins.

To each their own.

 

[Tom K.]

There is reason every EWS winner ever and the vast majority of DH WC wins have been done on clipless. If flats were better for going DH more people would use them at the elite level at these level.

Exactly. Last year, my young, nearly pro team mate made a "step" improvement in his DH results by switching to clipless. He was VERY skeptical about the idea going in.

Not all of us have testosterone coursing through our veins./QUOTE]

Pretty low blow. Surprised.

It's not about speed in rocky, technical terrain (at least for me). It's about cleaning moves. Clipless provides power at any moment, in any pedal position, and lets you "horse" the bike around, even if you don't have pro-level skills.

 

[scott43]

But, slow and steady wins the race right?

Not always.. You need different speeds at different times. It's difficult to explain without watching, much like telling someone what's wrong with their skiing without actually being there.. Sometimes, speed is your friend..sometimes it's not. It's learning when to use speed and when not to..where you need momentum and where you don't..these are intricate things that have to be learned. I suggest you learn at your own pace and do what's comfortable for you. If you want to improve, ask a better level rider to give you some tips while you're riding with them. And observe other better riders.

 

[AmyPJ]

Exactly. Last year, my young, nearly pro team mate made a "step" improvement in his DH results by switching to clipless. He was VERY skeptical about the idea going in.



Pretty low blow. Surprised.

It's not about speed in rocky, technical terrain (at least for me). It's about cleaning moves. Clipless provides power at any moment, in any pedal position, and lets you "horse" the bike around, even if you don't have pro-level skills.

It really wasn't meant to be a low blow. It's just a true statement. I have an extremely high level of fear of injury--in skiing, biking, riding horses (which I am VERY good at horses, BTW.) Therefore, the feeling of being captive to my bike's pedals when I crash scares the bejeezus out of me. And my crashes have ALL occurred due to being clipped in. I TRULY believe that men truly do NOT understand this fear. If being clipped in is so essential, then why do the majority of free-riders ride flats? And why do the skills clinics prefer that we are riding flats? I get what you are saying, and I understand the physics behind it. I'm just telling you it doesn't work for ME, and I'm not alone.
I cleared this rock garden (which is about 4X this length) last year many times riding flats, both up and down. Are there times when I could have used some up-stroke from being clipless that would have helped? Sure. Do I care? No. Am I thrilled that I am out there participating in this challenging activity? Yes! Do I challenge myself almost daily to push beyond my comfort zone a wee bit? Yes! That's all that matters to me. There are a whole lot of couch potatoes out there. I have arthritis in both knees, under both patellas, I have a tibial plateau fracture and torn meniscus that was never repaired and my right knee and hip have never been the same since. But I'm OUT THERE and that's something to be applauded. I'm also not telling all of you clipless riders you really should be riding flats. We all need to do what works for us as individuals.

 

[Monique]

I'm not sure about the testosterone comment - I'm pretty risk-tolerant. And as I recall, several years ago, one particular downhill racer was considered an anomaly because he was winning with clipless, when everyone else refused to ride them. Perhaps that's been flipped on its head in the meantime.

I've actually come out of my clipless pedal unintentionally more often than I've come off of my flat pedal unintentionally. Those traction pins work! And when I sprained my ankle badly, having flats didn't save me from trapping my foot between my bike and the trail.

I've heard arguments in the past that clipless provides a more efficient pedal stroke for climbs, but that doesn't seem to be the argument being made here. You guys are saying that technical stuff is easier on clipless. I'd have to cogitate about that one. But all things considered, I've gone back and forth a few times, and I just really like my flats. Maybe I'm just addicted to the endorphins released when my calf gets a big scratch from the traction pins.

 

[Josh Matta]

WC level DH has basically been dominated by clipless......maybe locally there was more flat riders but on the highest level of the sport its been a vast majority on clipless for quite awhile.

Sam Hill is one of the few that never rides clipless and has actually won WC DHs....Danny Hart rides flats sometimes and has won on them, but almost no one else in the top echelons uses them.

 

[Monique]

WC level DH has basically been dominated by clipless......maybe locally there was more flat riders but on the highest level of the sport its been a vast majority on clipless for quite awhile.

Sam Hill is one of the few that never rides clipless and has actually won WC DHs....Danny Hart rides flats sometimes and has won on them, but almost no one else in the top echelons uses them.

Maybe I got the story completely bass-awkwards. That happens sometimes.

Anyway, I think Amy hit the nail on the head regarding working on obstacles - I've never gotten to the point where I'm now so comfortable with obstacles that I felt I would be better off going back to clipless. In the meantime, flat pedals with traction pins make it very easy to start pedaling from a stop. They also allow me to choose different foot positions, although once I'm in that position, I have no float at all without repositioning my foot.

Amy, if you ever did want to experiment with clipless, the M647s are pretty sweet. Not quite as much grip as flat pedals with traction pins, but way better than a regular clipless pedal of any stripe.

 

[Josh Matta]

yeha those M647 actually looks pretty good. Its two sided with a platform. The clip on one side/flat on the other side is useless but those pedals are not it.

 

[AmyPJ]

Maybe I got the story completely bass-awkwards. That happens sometimes.

Anyway, I think Amy hit the nail on the head regarding working on obstacles - I've never gotten to the point where I'm now so comfortable with obstacles that I felt I would be better off going back to clipless. In the meantime, flat pedals with traction pins make it very easy to start pedaling from a stop. They also allow me to choose different foot positions, although once I'm in that position, I have no float at all without repositioning my foot.

Amy, if you ever did want to experiment with clipless, the M647s are pretty sweet. Not quite as much grip as flat pedals with traction pins, but way better than a regular clipless pedal of any stripe.

I'll definitely look at them. I rode clipless until two years ago, after my TPF.
Needless to say, I'm not letting my Deity flat pedals sell with my bike that I'm selling as soon as my new one arrives
I'll be moving them to the new bike.