• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Mikaela Shiffrin

Primoz

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Posts
2,483
Location
Slovenia, Europe
The scary thing here isn’t the Mikaela/parents story because it seems to be turning out so well.... but imagine the other dozens (or hundreds?) of families attempting to replicate this success without the talent, resources, and mental toughness to pull it off. I feel sorry for them.

So you have parents who think that their daughters are not progressing fast enough, not hitting the same milestones, and who can be a complete handful for coaches. "But her age, Mikaela was........" Guess what, your child is killing it. There is one MS. She doesn't live in your house.

It's happening. Now, in past and will happen in future. Only thing is, you will never hear about it. At least not about most of them, as in 99.9% cases these will fail, and this info never comes out to general public. Just as 99.9% of those (of us) who followed established trainer/athlete with no family involved route. There's only very very little number of kids in sport who turn out to be world champions on the end.
What I see as problem here is, parents get their idea about making world champion out of their kid.Then they push and basically destroy kid along the way. Same thing is with MS, with exception her parents were lucky and she's one of few kids that actually made it to top this way. But reality is, even if she is successful now, that her parents have fuc**ked up head. Since they never made anything on their own, they get idea to make it up for this with their kid, turning it into World champion. Yes, in Mikaela's case it was success. In pretty much every single other case I know it ended up with kid telling his/her parents to simply fu**ck off once they are old enough to dear to tell this to their parents. I still think for kids sport should be fun, and real training starts way later. This way, kids have their childhood, and once it's time to really start pushing, they are not already all feed up with this thing.

If you guys didn't treat the aristocracy like royalty then it wouldn't exist....

I have no problems with MS (or Lindsey, Ted, Marcel or any other top athlete) being treated well. She earned this respect with her own hard work. What I don't get is people treating real aristocracy that way. They did nothing to deserve this, except being born in "right" family. But that's whole different thing already, so let's not get into this :)
 

fatbob

Not responding
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,288
I like MS a lot but I hope for her sake there is a plan to let her cut loose at some point (post 22 Olympics?) and try other stuff. Plus a gameplan for things not going accordingly to plan and being laid up with serious injury ( like college).

I think we've all seen enough child prodigies that end up a mess by their 30s. From what @Muleski says MS won't go this way.
 

markojp

mtn rep for the gear on my feet
Industry Insider
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,604
Location
PNW aka SEA
I think we've all seen enough child prodigies that end up a mess by their 30s. From what @Muleski says MS won't go this way.

We hope. There's just something that sets off alarm bells after reading the article. It'll be interesting to see if mom and dad tolerate her love life.
 

newfydog

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Posts
834
In pretty much every single other case I know it ended up with kid telling his/her parents to simply fu**ck off once they are old enough to dear to tell this to their parents. I still think for kids sport should be fun, and real training starts way later. This way, kids have their childhood, and once it's time to really start pushing, they are not already all feed up with this thing.

Somehow, through the small world syndrome was somewhat acquainted with both of LV's parents, before they met. Her mother was not into ski racing, her father was a prodigy, junior national champion as a junior in high school. He never made the US team as injuries and attitude got in the way.

Both Dad and Lindsey had Erich Sailer at Buck Hill Minn as a coach. Good guy. Dad used to coach at his Red Lodge race camp, so LV had an experienced coach around full time. Until, as Primoz points out, she decided she would no longer speak to him. I guess in recent years he has been to a few races, but they had one big and total split once she got to the top.

I contrast that to another couple I've known, Taylor Phinney's parents. Mom was an Olympic cycling gold medalist, Dad won two stages of the tour de France. Taylor was allowed to find his own way, play soccer, and didn't get into cycling until his mid teens. World champion on the track by late teens. Still a close family. Perhaps that is easier to do in cycling, where raw talent is more important than technique.
 

Frankly

Upwind of NY
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Posts
527
Location
Spencerport, NY
Just wait until medical technology advances to the point where parents can (pay for) select specific traits... high pain tolerance, obedience, extra muscles encasing the knee joint, etc.

I don't know the author of the NYer story but I wouldn't put too much on his supposed frictions and drama. That's what these writers are paid to do and everything is subtle spun to guide you to the conclusion that the Shiffrens are too much of this or that. The funny thing is that when I've met other victims of this type of reporting -- the old "60 Minutes" investigative "journalism" show comes to mind -- they are anything but how they've been portrayed. The writer would have you believe that Mikaela's Mom is akin to "Mommy Dearest" micro-managing every aspect of MS's life. Possibly? But I'm more apt to believe that maybe they are both just trying to be the best they can be at a sport that is fun and rewarding... and given the choice between spending 60-70 hours per week with some middle aged Austrian dude or MOM the choice is obvious.
 

jmeb

Enjoys skiing.
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
4,490
Location
Colorado
I like MS a lot but I hope for her sake there is a plan to let her cut loose at some point (post 22 Olympics?) and try other stuff. ....

I really want to see MS free skiing off piste at some point. Not sure I've ever seen a video of that, and can't think of many skiers that approach her level of smoothness and sheer skill. Watching her rip the crap out of CB's North Face a la Wendy Fischer would be a treat.
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,453
I really want to see MS free skiing off piste at some point. Not sure I've ever seen a video of that, and can't think of many skiers that approach her level of smoothness and sheer skill. Watching her rip the crap out of CB's North Face a la Wendy Fischer would be a treat.
Never going to happen for awhile.

From the article:
"Her need of ski racing is like a need for oxygen.” Pech recalled a day when it snowed several feet—a rare treat, in those hills, and by custom an excuse to blow off practice and ski for fun. “We were all ripping powder, hucking cliffs in the woods. [at Burke] Meanwhile, Mikaela was doing drills on her racing skis. She’d rather do drills than ski powder with her buddies.” (“Powder? There’s no room for that,” Jeff [Dad] told me. “That’s for also-rans. Sorry, that’s the way it is.”)
-------------------------

She's not Mancuso.
 

jmeb

Enjoys skiing.
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
4,490
Location
Colorado
Not saying I expect it to happen soon. Just excited for the day it does.
 

Teppaz

Out on the slopes
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Posts
556
Location
Brooklyn, NY
For what it’s worth, Nick Paumgarten, who wrote the New Yorker article, is a longtime skier, from a skiing family (his grandfather competed for Austria in the 1932 Winter Olympics). He’s written a lot about the sport, so it’s not like a newbie got the assignment.
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,453
A little digging and the writer's grandfather was killed in an avalanche in Austria in the 50's. His aunt was killed in a Colorado avalanche in 1972.
See this article by him on Andrew McClean from 2005
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/04/18/dangerous-game

I don't get the "Mommie Dearest" sense from the article or the situation. It is what it is, and it's not an average parent who's "coaching" a skier at that level.
I think the most suspect part of the article is the Dyksterhouse issue. Seems like there's way more to that than just releasing some video with analysis on it. Everyone can analyze their own video. It's not like they're skiing in the dark.
 
Last edited:

Frankly

Upwind of NY
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Posts
527
Location
Spencerport, NY
I heard the New Yorker's current editor David Remnick give a talk once and briefly met him at the reception. I dropped my subscription and have avoided the magazine ever since, I don't give them any more credibility than... well, I don't give the entire media any respect. To call them whores would be insulting to prostitutes.

With the Olympics we'll have more BS than snow.

I bet if you dig deep and have to psychoanalyze the writer's motivation it's probably to rationalize their own failures by dragging the successful down.
 

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
With the Olympics we'll have more BS than snow.

That is a great, and 100% accurate line.

I would sure not take anything that you read over the few months as close to accurate. The NYer article has some facts that I am aware of, some real fiction and embellishment and some omissions. Just saying.

People who know the full "score" have zero to gain by piling on,correcting things, etc.

I find in fairly interesting when I read of people liking MS, or LV. Even better when we read of what great role models they are, what a great job their parents have done.

Have the met the athletes? Do they know them? Do they know their peers and friends? How about their coaches? Maybe family friends.

What you see for the most part is exactly what they and their handlers want released to the media, digital and social.

The BS meter will soon be pinned at the max. Add the Mancuso circus to it, they of course we have Ligety. Probably Weibrecht, given his past miracle Olympic results. Perhaps veteran Nyman.

We'll see a lot, I'll read most and do so with a big grain of salt.
 

Rudi Riet

AKA songfta AKA randomduck - a USSS coach, as well
SkiTalk Tester
Contributor
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
2,462
Location
Washington, DC
We'll see a lot, I'll read most and do so with a big grain of salt.

Just ask Frank for a chip of the big block...

merkers2.jpg
 

Frankly

Upwind of NY
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Posts
527
Location
Spencerport, NY

Peak203f

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Posts
6
Location
Eastern Canada

(My first post on a forum in years. Hope this comes out as intended!).


Referring back to the New Yorker article, it quotes Mikaela as saying she estimates she skis an average of seven minutes a ski day.

Unless I'm I missing something obvious, that would certainly not seem to be right? In the next paragraph it says she does many more training runs then the others, sometimes up to 18 training runs. If they are 50 second runs typical of a regulation FIS women's SL, that alone is 15 minutes of skiing. Add in all the drills, the free skiing, how does she/her coach estimate seven minutes ?
 

Primoz

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Posts
2,483
Location
Slovenia, Europe
I would take stuff that Ligety says with a bit of reserve. He skis great, but what he does even better is marketing ;) Personally I would still say you get speed technique and everything else needed for winning skiing WC race by skiing gates. But, and there's HUGE but in this. First, for most of people, it will get extremely boring (one thing I don't understand are swimmers.... every day same 50m pool up down up down). So if you do start with gate drills at age of 5, kids will be sick of skiing when they get 15. Another thing is, some extra knowledge and feeling about skiing certainly helps. So yes, I still think skiing powder (or anything else) adds something, but I wouldn't really say you need to ski powder to win WC race. Most of WC guys ski powder relatively good, whole bunch of freeride guys and girls are ex alpine skiers anyway, while on the other side, I still have to see someone from freeride camp to be competitive between the gates. And no Jon Olsson doesn't count, as he was never really competitive in WC (and he is ex alpine racer anyway). He did great, but he was nowhere near top. Jules on the other side didn't do so bad on those few freeride races she did.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

  • Dwight
    Practitioner of skiing, solid and liquid
Top