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Gear Marker Stops Selling Kingpin Binding

coskigirl

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The contracts the authorized retailers have with Marker likely include an indemnity which will require Marker to make the retailer whole. The retailers may or may not be required to stop selling, a settlement may include paying G3 an amount for each sold binding rather than it being taken off the market completely.
 

Yo Momma

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That depends on the settlement. If I were G3 I would seriously consider a licensing deal with Marker.
Does that mean allowing Kpin sales to continue and taking a % of every sale.........including but not limited to continued production and new sales?
 

coskigirl

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That means allowing Kpin sales to continue and taking a % of every sale.........including but not limited to continued production and new sales?

Could be. Or a flat fee of some sort or a combination like an annual fee plus a percentage. Personally I'd do the combo.
 

Yo Momma

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Still, given the publicity, seems like a Win/Win for both companies as Kpins are on my bucket list............ especially now! LOL
 

coskigirl

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Kingpin.

"KneeBinding’s complaint alleges that Marker Volkl USA’s Kingpin ski binding infringes its patent because it also incorporates a lateral release without a license."

https://www.law360.com/articles/666415/vermont-german-ski-equipment-cos-in-patent-row

To me this might be the tipping point of licensing vs. taking it off the market. If this is another valid infringement claim then the cost of licensing technology from 2 different companies may very well outweigh the advantages causing them to take it off the market. If Marker claims an accidental infringement and did due diligence ought to rethink who they are using to do their IP due diligence. If they used an outside firm that missed these patents then I suspect heads will role.
 

Nobody

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Shouldn't a patent cover specifically how a certain item works? Can you just patent "lateral release" ? I have never seen a kneebinding in real life and might lay my hands on a kpin only if I'll be patient but, what I remember from past discussions, kneebindings lateral release occurs only on one side. Whereas Kpins lateral relase can happen either side because the whole heelpice can rotate either clock- or counterclockwise. Do I remember correctly or have things changed (improved) and kneebindings have now a bilateral release mechanism? Or even worse (for my memory and comprehensive capabilities) it has always been the case?
This said, I still wonder (as I did as soon as Kpins were announced) why Marker hasn't taken the heelpiece (a modified version if it, without the walk/ski slide...) and launched it in the general downhill bindings market. Any frankenbinder tried that (I suspect not, since Kpins are still quite expensive)?
And yet, would the one side release vs two sides release be an enough valid argument to repeal the claim?
 
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jmeb

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Shouldn't a patent cover specifically how a certain item works? Can you just patent "lateral release" ?

I can't imagine Kneebinding has a patent that generally covers "lateral release at the heel of a ski binding". Dynafit has had a heel-based lateral release for a long time. Over a decade?

It may be a patent that covers lateral release of alpine-style heels?
 

Nobody

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I can't imagine Kneebinding has a patent that generally covers "lateral release at the heel of a ski binding". Dynafit has had a heel-based lateral release for a long time. Over a decade?

It may be a patent that covers lateral release of alpine-style heels?

Might that be the catch, since Marker has (so far) offered the kpin heel for the AT market only?
In any case, I doubt Marker will stop selling the Kpin, here in Europe I haven't heard anything about such a move, it appears that the pull off the market is "limited" to the american market, I will inquiry about it next itme I'll get near my favourite ski gear shoppes in the mountains
 

jmeb

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And meanwhile us US-based folks can just keep ordering from CA where we get no customs difficulties and a nice exchange rate.
 

Swiss Toni

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Patent disputes are pretty common in the binding business, Marker and Head/Tyrolia have recently settled a 4 year long patent dispute and a dispute between Marker and Salomon is still ongoing. At issue is mainly the transverse spring design of Marker’s Royal Family toe piece. Normally these disputes don’t result in the binding being withdrawn from the market and the settlements often don’t result in the payment of damages.

G3 have applied for a European patent, the application is currently being examined. It usually takes 4 to 5 years to process a European patent application.
 

Doug Briggs

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Kneebinding is on shaky ground as it is. They designer and co-founder of Kneebinding (Rick Howell) is suing KB for the return of his patents that were incorporated in the KB since his ouster from the company. KB has counter-sued since their loss to RH.
 

Muleski

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The Knee, Rick Howell battle is sort of "tedious". I would think that it's getting to be a real drain of energy and money for RH. Obviously plenty of bad blood there. It also sounds like RH is convinced that his new binding will be revolutionary.

I actually hate to see it prolonged. Knowing a bit about both parties, not shocked.

As far as a consumer's view, I hope the Kingpin deal gets resolved. It's a good product. Both adult kids and their SO's are on them for their AT/BC setups and are really pleased.
 

Monique

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The Knee, Rick Howell battle is sort of "tedious". I would think that it's getting to be a real drain of energy and money for RH.

How many years has it been going on, anyway?
 

Doug Briggs

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This is about year three, that I know of. So far Howell has won every step along the way but KB isn't giving up. It is a shame, for while it may not be the end-all solution to ACL injury, it is a massive step in technology and could be a significant stepping stone towards bindings that protect more than bones; which is to say all other binding technology. The Marker Kingpin does provide true lateral release at the heel, but that is in lieu of having lateral release at the toe. The Kingpin and the Howell Ski Binding have completely separate mechanisms for up vs lateral release so share some concepts, but to achieve different goals. Out of deference to Rick, I'll reference his bindings, not KB in the future as Howell is actively pursing the technology and its inventor. KB is just using their snapshot of the technology, as far as I can tell, to market their system.
 

Nobody

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AFAIK, Howell is not suing Marker, KB is.
IIRC, When kpins came to market and was discussed/reviewed on internet forum, Howell even commented on the kpin "wheels" system, stating that it was taken into account for.KB but then abandoned. Do not.remember where, might.have beenn on Epicski or TGR...I'll look around, but if it was on.Epic..it's gone...
Also I do not remember RH saying/writing anything about Marker infringing his patents, (which menas nothing, of course)
 

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