Long-Term Test: 2017 Volkswagen Alltrack S

[James]

Traction control in the Ford Escape also controls the engine. So just when you're trying to get up the driveway it cuts your power if the wheels are spinning. Thing is you have to go into a menu to turn it off, it's not just a button.

 

[Bill Talbot]

Traction control in the Ford Escape also controls the engine. So just when you're trying to get up the driveway it cuts your power if the wheels are spinning. Thing is you have to go into a menu to turn it off, it's not just a button.

Most of these systems pulse the affected wheels' brake and will decrease engine power. Both of which are not always helpful, depending on the situation. Also the entire system can only work as well as the traction generated by your tires. So ironically and counterintuitive to what non car people might think, winter tires are needed for traction control to function well. Go figure.

 

[James]

Most of these systems pulse the affected wheels' brake and will decrease engine power. Both of which are not always helpful, depending on the situation. Also the entire system can only work as well as the traction generated by your tires. So ironically and counterintuitive to what non car people might think, winter tires are needed for traction control to function well. Go figure.

It's nigh impossible to make this argument to the non believers. I'd rather have four snows and front wheel drive than awd and all season. Possibly even rear wheel drive w/ snows. Four cars stuck in one driveway in the last two weeks prove this but still doesn't convince people.

Is it better to go narrower than stock for snows or is the trade off on dry and possibly ice not worth it?

 

[Bill Talbot]

It's nigh impossible to make this argument to the non believers. I'd rather have four snows and front wheel drive than awd and all season. Possibly even rear wheel drive w/ snows. Four cars stuck in one driveway in the last two weeks prove this but still doesn't convince people.

Is it better to go narrower than stock for snows or is the trade off on dry and possibly ice not worth it?

I always go narrower and taller personally. We just put some winter sneakers on TeleBetty's new Audi. Went from 19" rims down to 16"s!!! (minus 3 sizing)

 

[James]

I always go narrower and taller personally. We just put some winter sneakers on TeleBetty's new Audi. Went from 19" rims down to 16"s!!! (minus 3 sizing)

Because you want her car to be handicapped so you get to the mt first?

I get it. I doubt I'll change rims this yr.
But... If dry handling is that much worse as is with snows, doesn't downsizing make it worse?

 

[Bill Talbot]

Because you want her car to be handicapped so you get to the mt first?

I get it. I doubt I'll change rims this yr.
But... If dry handling is that much worse as is with snows, doesn't downsizing make it worse?

Everything is a compromise. I want MAX possible snow performance, period. If your driving platform is well balanced, it is not that big of a deal.
If not it will do the bad things it does on summer tire only worse. Taller sidewalls make a huge difference with the seasons pot holes, frost heaves and ice pack stutter. The taller tires added volume @ lower air pressure make the ride far less tiresome. This has become ever more important with the unfortunate trend in 18" and 19" wheel and extremely low profile tires (30-40 series)

 

[James]

Everything is a compromise. I want MAX possible snow performance, period. If your driving platform is well balanced, it is not that big of a deal.
If not it will do the bad things it does on summer tire only worse. Taller sidewalls make a huge difference with the seasons pot holes, frost heaves and ice pack stutter. The taller tires added volume @ lower air pressure make the ride far less tiresome. This has become ever more important with the unfortunate trend in 18" and 19" wheel and extremely low profile tires (30-40 series)

Makes sense.

Two extremes:

Pretty sweet if they were snows.

 

[x10003q]

I always go narrower and taller personally. We just put some winter sneakers on TeleBetty's new Audi. Went from 19" rims down to 16"s!!! (minus 3 sizing)

Going from a 19" to a 16" on a modern Audi defeats the purpose of the Audi. There are plenty of 18" and 17" snow tires that will provide whatever the 16" will provide.

 

[Bill Talbot]

Going from a 19" to a 16" on a modern Audi defeats the purpose of the Audi. There are plenty of 18" and 17" snow tires that will provide whatever the 16" will provide.

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Philpug]

You all know we got some heavy wet snow here in Tahoe the past 24 hours which created another test for Elwood. OK, Since the Yukon is blue, and the GSW AT is blue, I am now referring the Yukon as Jake and the Alltrack as Elwood..the Blues Brothers. OK, since arrived at Northstar, we got a good 10" of heavy muck and the parking lot just has one pass of a snowplay maybe 3 hours before we left. which left a good 15" snow back behind the Alltrack. As we walked up to the car there was a Forester that was stuck and it's owner shoveling a path so he could get out. Tricia and I cleaned off the car and I put it in Off Road Mode to see what he could do. Elwood had no problem backing out over the berm with a few spins of the wheels. Impressed. As we went to exit there were no less than 10 cars stuck in the remnants of the snopwplow passings and in those 10 cars, 5 were Subarus, WRX's (understandable) 2 more Forester and a Crosstrek who was getting pulled out by a pick up. Was it the difference of this car being an Alltrack or was it that theyse cars didn't have snow tires..or both? Dunno, but this is one impressive little car.

Last tank of fuel was 375 miles range and 27.5 MPG. I think with regular tires I can easily get 400 plus miles on a tank with close to 30MPG.

 

[Sibhusky]

Bot problem = no problem?

 

[Philpug]

Bot problem = no problem?

BOT?

 

[Sibhusky]

"Elwood had bot problem backing out over the berm with a few spins of the wheels."

 

[TahoeCharlie]

Going from a 19" to a 16" on a modern Audi defeats the purpose of the Audi. There are plenty of 18" and 17" snow tires that will provide whatever the 16" will provide.

I would seriously discourage anyone from trying such a drastic change in tire size/width on a modern car. While a slightly narrow tire will provide marginally better performance in loose snow, not ice; this much change will SIGNIFICANTLY alter the driving dynamics of the car on dry pavement, especially it's emergency handling/cornering capability as the contact patch is much smaller and the sidewalls much more flexible.

Modern car suspensions are designed around particular tire sizes, major deviations in tire size will comprise that design.

BTW, going bigger, plus sizes (bigger contact patch), will hardly effect the cars handling at all, but it may be more susceptible to aquaplaning depending on tread pattern.

 

[TahoeCharlie]

You all know we got some heavy wet snow here in Tahoe the past 24 hours which created another test for Elwood. OK, Since the Yukon is blue, and the GSW AT is blue, I am now referring the Yukon as Jake and the Alltrack as Elwood..the Blues Brothers. OK, since arrived at Northstar, we got a good 10" of heavy muck and the parking lot just has one pass of a snowplay maybe 3 hours before we left. which left a good 15" snow back behind the Alltrack. As we walked up to the car there was a Forester that was stuck and it's owner shoveling a path so he could get out. Tricia and I cleaned off the car and I put it in Off Road Mode to see what he could do. Elwood had bot problem backing out over the berm with a few spins of the wheels. Impressed. As we went to exit there were no less than 10 cars stuck in the remnants of the snopwplow passings and in those 10 cars, 5 were Subarus, WRX's (understandable) 2 more Forester and a Crosstrek who was getting pulled out by a pick up. Was it the difference of this car being an Alltrack or was it that theyse cars didn't have snow tires..or both? Dunno, but this is one impressive little car.

Last tank of fuel was 375 miles range and 27.5 MPG. I think with regular tires I can easily get 400 plus miles on a tank with close to 30MPG.

Interesting observation, other cars may have had MEDIOCRE or M&S snow tires. I believe you said you had Bridgestone WS-80's on the Alltrack. These are a great high-traction snow tire. Probably made the difference. I have Bridgestone DM-V1's, LT/SUV snow tire, on my '16 Turbo Forester and they go over anything. Also had two sets of these on my Tacoma double cab and never got stuck in six years. One of the best deep snow tires made, IMHO.

 

[Bill Talbot]

You all know we got some heavy wet snow here in Tahoe the past 24 hours which created another test for Elwood. OK, Since the Yukon is blue, and the GSW AT is blue, I am now referring the Yukon as Jake and the Alltrack as Elwood..the Blues Brothers. OK, since arrived at Northstar, we got a good 10" of heavy muck and the parking lot just has one pass of a snowplay maybe 3 hours before we left. which left a good 15" snow back behind the Alltrack. As we walked up to the car there was a Forester that was stuck and it's owner shoveling a path so he could get out. Tricia and I cleaned off the car and I put it in Off Road Mode to see what he could do. Elwood had bot problem backing out over the berm with a few spins of the wheels. Impressed. As we went to exit there were no less than 10 cars stuck in the remnants of the snopwplow passings and in those 10 cars, 5 were Subarus, WRX's (understandable) 2 more Forester and a Crosstrek who was getting pulled out by a pick up. Was it the difference of this car being an Alltrack or was it that theyse cars didn't have snow tires..or both? Dunno, but this is one impressive little car.

Last tank of fuel was 375 miles range and 27.5 MPG. I think with regular tires I can easily get 400 plus miles on a tank with close to 30MPG.

I'm betting that most if not all the 'stuck' subie's were sporting no season tires. And thus it is understandable that they could move (and yet not understandable that the owners don't know any better)
The other issue is with the 10% ethanol crap they put in our gas. This is a program that needs to go away for so many reasons. Then your goal of 400+ mpg should be easy.

 

[Bill Talbot]

I would seriously discourage anyone from trying such a drastic change in tire size/width on a modern car. While a slightly narrow tire will provide marginally better performance in loose snow, not ice; this much change will SIGNIFICANTLY alter the driving dynamics of the car on dry pavement, especially it's emergency handling/cornering capability as the contact patch is much smaller and the sidewalls much more flexible.

Modern car suspensions are designed around particular tire sizes, major deviations in tire size will comprise that design.

BTW, going bigger, plus sizes (bigger contact patch), will hardly effect the cars handling at all, but it may be more susceptible to aquaplaning depending on tread pattern.

Guys, the tire OD is the same as the factory OEM setup. This is the whole point of 'minus' sizing. Do you homework before you make uninformed responses. The tire height grows as the rim size goes down. I also love the term 'modern car' as it we're talking about something made 50 years ago...

 

[Philpug]

@Bill Talbot & @TahoeCharlie, yes I said that it had to be as much the tires as anything...along with that interface between the seat and steering wheel. Yesterday, Kolo8 News here reported Mt Rose Highway clsoed because of an accident, they showed a Subaru off the road and mentioned the car had AWD but no winter tires, it was good that they made that clear. It was not the AWD, but very well the lack of tirs that caused it. As we left the parking lot, I commented to @Tricia even with running snows on the Jetta (with a stick, Bill)and the same tires, there would no way it could have done what this car did to get out of the parking lot. I to want to play with the modes some more to see what the actual differences are. Not that I plan on doing any off roading but there is a skid plate kit for these that might be ordered at some point.

 

[Philpug]

This arrived to protect the rear bumper from sliding skis in and out....

 

[Tricia]

Bot problem = no problem?

BOT?

"Elwood had bot problem backing out over the berm with a few spins of the wheels."

HAHA, typo from Phil. I fixed it. Yes he meant - no problem.


As for Elwood's amazing driving capabilities in the heavy snow, I was grinning as we drove past several cars being shoveled out and/or stuck.
Yes, part of it is the type and life of tires on the cars that were stuck. Part of it was the bad drivers, not knowing how to accelerate (or not) out of snow like this, and part of it is that the Alltrack really is that good.

We drove the Jetta a lot more than the Yukon, for fuel savings alone, but on a day like yesterday we would have taken the Yukon. This Alltrack is going to reduce the use of the Yukon (AKA Jake) a lot. The only advantage the Yukon has over the Alltrack is towing capacity, people capacity, and ground clearance.