Intermediate to expert

[Nick Golden]

Hello all brace yourself for some vague and random questions. Please consider this a testament to me wanting to get over the intermediate hump. I consider myself intermediate and have skied consistently for about four years. Each year getting more and more time in the snow.

I have a vague question that has been bothering me for quite some time. How are you supposed to turn on skis? Sounds like a simple question but I've noticed that everyone does it a little different. Are you supposed to carve and really get your body in an angular motion? Do you swish both skis like windshield wipers? Do you lean super forward or hover over the middle of the skis? Does your technique change in powder or choppy snow? When you see someone gracefully coming down in a straight line with constant turns to control their speed are they carving? I can ski a groomed black diamond but I can't do it without stopping to control my speed. This is where I want to improve. I've been in lessons where I get conflicting info from Instructors.

I've also noticed with all our snow this year that I can't turn in powder the way I would on a groomed run. Tried it a few times and in powder I turn too hard and fall.

Aside from my questions what was it that helped you take your skiing to the next level?

Thanks

 

[Monique]

Wow, that packs a lot into a paragraph.

As someone with more experience than some, less than others:

How are you supposed to turn on skis? - it depends on your intent, goals, and abilities.

Are you supposed to carve? Sometimes. Are you supposed to get your body into an angular motion? Er, depending on what you mean, probably.

Sometimes I swish both skis like windshield wipers, just for fun or to slow down. Because I can. Not usually. But I do smear a lot, which is different.

Do I lean super forward? Not unless I've just hit something unexpected and my skis get stopped suddenly

Do I hover over the middle of my skis? I wouldn't call it hovering. Are you familiar with the term "neutral stance"?

Does my technique change in powder and chop? Yes, sort of. Groomers will let you get away with stuff that powder and chop will not. They're excellent, but harsh, teachers.

When I see someone gracefully coming down in a straight line with constant turns to control their speed, they probably aren't carving, because carving makes you accelerate. But then we can get into discussions of pure carving vs brushed carving vs blended, oh my.

I think you're asking some fantastic questions, and answering them to your satisfaction will take you years - and that's what's fun about learning this stuff. (I'm not saying I have all the answers. I don't. I was being tongue in cheek in answering your exact questions directly.)

Sometimes different instructors really do say contradictory things. Sometimes they only seem to be contradictory. Sometimes an instructor is trying to really emphasize one thing, and you take it to the extreme, and a later instructor works on dialing you back. I've had some lively discussions with my husband when we each come back from a separate lesson, compare notes, and find that we've gotten what seems like contradictory feedback.

What took my skiing to the next level was a combination of a LOT of lessons and a LOT of vertical. (My next level is others' previous, or several times previous, level.) Instruction to learn a better way to ski, so that skiing wasn't just about suppressing my fear to get down progressively steeper runs. Vertical because there's only so much you can learn by listening and watching and following instructions. The rest requires repetition and miles in the saddle.

Hope this isn't too flip, and I'm sure others will have more insightful comments.

 

[Ken_R]

Hello all brace yourself for some vague and random questions. Please consider this a testament to me wanting to get over the intermediate hump. I consider myself intermediate and have skied consistently for about four years. Each year getting more and more time in the snow.

I have a vague question that has been bothering me for quite some time. How are you supposed to turn on skis? Sounds like a simple question but I've noticed that everyone does it a little different. Are you supposed to carve and really get your body in an angular motion? Do you swish both skis like windshield wipers? Do you lean super forward or hover over the middle of the skis? Does your technique change in powder or choppy snow? When you see someone gracefully coming down in a straight line with constant turns to control their speed are they carving? I can ski a groomed black diamond but I can't do it without stopping to control my speed. This is where I want to improve. I've been in lessons where I get conflicting info from Instructors.

I've also noticed with all our snow this year that I can't turn in powder the way I would on a groomed run. Tried it a few times and in powder I turn too hard and fall.

Aside from my questions what was it that helped you take your skiing to the next level?

Thanks

Looking forward to reading some responses from the resident experts.

My take on some of your questions:

Does your technique change in powder or choppy snow? In my case yes, a little, I tend to ski much more balanced on both skis when in powder rather than heavily pressure the edge of the ski on the outside of the turn like I would when carving on hardpack.

"I can ski a groomed black diamond but I can't do it without stopping to control my speed." That is not skiing it, you are barely surviving it without damage!

There are two things that really affect skiing: Technique and Equipment.

Some equipment "masks" bad technique and do not punish for it. In the equipment equation the Boots are the foundation. You basically need good boots for you that fit you well and are the correct flex for you. Generally boots that are too big for you make it harder to ski under control. Regarding skis some skis are just horrible in powder. An expert skier might make them work, just, but a lower level skier will have a really tough time with them.

 

[Monique]

"I can ski a groomed black diamond but I can't do it without stopping to control my speed." That is not skiing it, you are barely surviving it without damage!

I wouldn't have phrased it like this, but I would repeat a common saying among ski instructors - that you can't improve your technique on the terrain that challenges you. A lot of us students think that our bad habits don't "come out" until we get into challenging conditions or terrain. We're all wrong - a good ski instructor can spot a lot of our flaws even on the bunny hill. I'm finally getting to the point this season - by force, because I had to take it down a few notches due to injury - that I can now identify my "big mountain" bad habits even on greens and blues. For a long time, I thought my bad habits only showed up in the steeps. I was wrong.

 

[Nick Golden]

So I probably made myself sound pretty bad. In regards to the diamonds I can do them with the occasional wide turn up the hill. I'm not the guy whizzing by with the graceful shirt turns controlling his speed. That's what I can't seem to do even on some steeper blues. Not sure if I need to just go with the faster speeds or what.

I think I have a fairly decent stance. Obviously lessons aren't a guarantee but I've had four in the last two years.

Sorry I sound like a babbling fool. I guess I'm not quite sure how to phrase the question appropriately. I just feel like my skiing ability has hit an intermediate plateau and I'm not okay with it.

 

[raytseng]

i will throw in some different more philosophical advice.

What do you want to accomplish? What do you want to improve?
Will you go to the internet and read/watch instructional videos, then go out and practice the drills and techniques described?
Have you already gone and googled intermediate ski tips and drills on youtube and watched a bunch of videos? If you haven't spent a few hours watching youtube, why haven't you?
Do you learn or focus only when you have in-person advice?
Will you go back to the easier or boring slopes and do drills or exercieses?
Are you having plenty of fun even with your admittedly intermediate abilities? ?
Do you have a ski buddy who maybe at the same level or better than you that can challenge you to those drills?

That being said, besides technique, for you can shortcut a little bit with gear. Besides the prerequisite for proper boots; many newer skis can coverup skills gaps or allow you to have a lot of fun even with poor technique.

 

[Ken_R]

So I probably made myself sound pretty bad. In regards to the diamonds I can do them with the occasional wide turn up the hill. I'm not the guy whizzing by with the graceful shirt turns controlling his speed. That's what I can't seem to do even on some steeper blues. Not sure if I need to just go with the faster speeds or what.

I think I have a fairly decent stance. Obviously lessons aren't a guarantee but I've had four in the last two years.

Sorry I sound like a babbling fool. I guess I'm not quite sure how to phrase the question appropriately. I just feel like my skiing ability has hit an intermediate plateau and I'm not okay with it.

No need to apologize! I know I have been there. I can't recall what took me over the hump, I am still improving and have a lot of room to get better.

Lesson are good for getting a good evaluation and some recommendations plus some productive practice. I would start by getting another lesson.

Two things that I have been told is to commit to making turns, not turn and stop, turn and stop and also to have good balance over the skis that way when you hit something like a bunched up snow you wont be thrown from tne turn. Sounds simple but isnt.

 

[Monique]

Sorry I sound like a babbling fool.

You don't, not at all.

 

[cantunamunch]

So I probably made myself sound pretty bad.

Bad? No. Intermediate? Yes.

. Not sure if I need to just go with the faster speeds or what.

Nope. Start working on the top of your turns. Do it with a ski that's super-easy for you to ski, that you trust in any terrain.

I think I have a fairly decent stance. Obviously lessons aren't a guarantee but I've had four in the last two years.

Not sure how much you ski per season but that is not a high number of lessons. More lessons and more time on snow will definitely have an effect, especially if you work with one or two instructors in consecutive sessions.

Yes, I am sort of trying to reverse the sense of your statement "aren't a guarantee". More lessons and more time on snow are the two greatest contributing factors to improvement.

(Boots are third, but down a ways. )

 

[Pete in Idaho]

Hello all brace yourself for some vague and random questions. Please consider this a testament to me wanting to get over the intermediate hump. I consider myself intermediate and have skied consistently for about four years.

I've also noticed with all our snow this year that I can't turn in powder the way I would on a groomed run. Tried it a few times and in powder I turn too hard and fall.

Aside from my questions what was it that helped you take your skiing to the next level?

Thanks

I'll tackle the two questions I left above. "Turning to hard and fall". Of course I haven't seen you do this BUT I will bet a whole bunch you are rotating your upper body around and past the turning point. Consequently falling into the hill. Skiing powder, do not rotate your upper body, keep it still and down the fall line or in the direction you are going but never around and back into the hill. Be centered over your skis and boots.

What helped take skiing to next level? For some it is lessons and lots of them. For myself it was skiing the whole mountain in all conditions and lots of time on the snow.
I am not an expert and never will be but have fun and get around the mt. ok.

 

[Ken_R]

So I probably made myself sound pretty bad. In regards to the diamonds I can do them with the occasional wide turn up the hill. I'm not the guy whizzing by with the graceful shirt turns controlling his speed. That's what I can't seem to do even on some steeper blues. Not sure if I need to just go with the faster speeds or what.

I think I have a fairly decent stance. Obviously lessons aren't a guarantee but I've had four in the last two years.

Sorry I sound like a babbling fool. I guess I'm not quite sure how to phrase the question appropriately. I just feel like my skiing ability has hit an intermediate plateau and I'm not okay with it.

No need to apologize! I know I have been there. I can't recall what took me over the hump, I am still improving and have a lot of room to get better.

Lesson are good for getting a good evaluation and some recommendations plus some productive practice. I would start by getting another lesson.

Two things that I have been told is to commit to making turns, not turn and stop, turn and stop and also to have good balance over the skis that way when you hit something like a bunched up snow you wont be thrown from tne turn. Sounds simple but isnt.

 

[Tricia]

So I probably made myself sound pretty bad. In regards to the diamonds I can do them with the occasional wide turn up the hill. I'm not the guy whizzing by with the graceful shirt turns controlling his speed. That's what I can't seem to do even on some steeper blues. Not sure if I need to just go with the faster speeds or what.

I think I have a fairly decent stance. Obviously lessons aren't a guarantee but I've had four in the last two years.

Sorry I sound like a babbling fool. I guess I'm not quite sure how to phrase the question appropriately. I just feel like my skiing ability has hit an intermediate plateau and I'm not okay with it.

You sound like someone who is eager to improve but feels like you've hit a plateau that you can't get past.

Where are you located? It's possible that we can also recommend a good instructor in your area who can help you with some of these concerns.
FWIW, this question may get some better responses if it were in the instruction area instead of general.
If you decide you want it moved please let me or @Philpug know.

 

[Mike King]

The five fundamentals:

1. Control the relationship of center of mass to the base of support to direct pressure along the length of the skis.
2 control edging through a combination of inclination and angulation.
3. Control pressure from ski to ski and direct pressure to the outside ski
4. Control the skis rotation with leg rotation separate from the upper body
5. Regulate the magnitude of pressure created by the ski snow interaction.

Hire an instructor to explain this to you.

Mike

 

[Josh Matta]

I've also noticed with all our snow this year that I can't turn in powder the way I would on a groomed run. Tried it a few times and in powder I turn too hard and fall.

this is extremely telling. Basically tells me that you even though you can ski groomers your not very good at them at all.

video of you skiing would show the clearest picture but if I had to guess you primary purpose of turning is to slow down, not to go some place. Watch this and take some video yourself and compare it to the images in this video.

 

[graham418]

Never underestimate the power of lessons. A good way to get over the 'hump' might be a ski week , with lessons every day. A lot of resorts offer a reasonably priced multi day package. You will get (hopefully) some consistent instruction and feedback. And , if you are in a group, some people of like ability to ski with for the remainder of the day.

 

[Josh Matta]

Never underestimate the power of lessons. A good way to get over the 'hump' might be a ski week , with lessons every day. A lot of resorts offer a reasonably priced multi day package. You will get (hopefully) some consistent instruction and feedback. And , if you are in a group, some people of like ability to ski with for the remainder of the day.

the issue with lessons is there are so few good coaches out there, even L2 and l3 does not promise a good lesson. I am curious where Nick is located at.....

 

[Lauren]

For me, time on snow was a defining factor on my learning curve. It wasn't until I started going weekly that progression accelerated.

 

[johnnyvw]

It takes time, and the amount of time is different for everyone. I found over the years that at certain points I will have "ah-ha!" moments. Most of them come during lessons, but not every lesson I have taken produces them. Sometimes it's just snow conditions, when something I am doing "clicks". I remember very well the first time I actually skied truly parallel, and also when I got the hang of knee-deep powder.
My wife and I have found the video series by Darren Turner to be quite good. Just don't overload on them... and it's still no replacement for on-snow instruction. But if they can help you visualize anything that helps you improve, they're worth a look.

 

[AmyPJ]

It takes time, and the amount of time is different for everyone. I found over the years that at certain points I will have "ah-ha!" moments. Most of them come during lessons, but not every lesson I have taken produces them. Sometimes it's just snow conditions, when something I am doing "clicks". I remember very well the first time I actually skied truly parallel, and also when I got the hang of knee-deep powder.
My wife and I have found the video series by Darren Turner to be quite good. Just don't overload on them... and it's still no replacement for on-snow instruction. But if they can help you visualize anything that helps you improve, they're worth a look.

Amen to that! In fact, amen to this post! And to a lot of the others posts on this thread.
We've had so much snow in UT this winter, we can't even dig out of it. I have been fortunate enough to be able to free ski with an L3 instructor who's been teaching for 20ish years, and this weekend, we got to get out and just PLAY in some of the fresh snow. I was just not feeling centered on the groomers for some reason. So, off to the powder and cut up powder we went, with him on my tails coaching me through each turn. (So fun!)

Anyway, back on the groomers and voila! I was centered, and my nagging step/stem had all but disappeared. Mixing things up and getting my head out of the game worked wonders. So, drills on easier terrain are certainly beneficial, but sometimes you just have to get out in conditions that are a bit outside your comfort zone and have a patient buddy with you and just SKI.

Nick, do you ski with friends who are better skiers than you? Ones who won't push you too much, but are patient? If so, get out and have some fun with them and work on one or two things, and try not to overthink it all (this is my biggest enemy.)

Oh, and one of the BEST things you can do to remain centered and balanced? Keep your hands DOWN THE HILL. I've developed a bad habit of allowing my left shoulder/arm to fall behind me this season after completing my left turn. It has really messed me up. I really focused on almost punching my hands forward and it cleaned a lot of things up.

Good luck, my friend, and go have some fun!

 

[Josh Matta]

If taught correctly you can be a L7 skier with no bad habits in about 15-20 days.....,.assuming your not a coach potato.

It can actually be harder to get someone to that level the longer they ski with out the proper coaching. Practice makes permit.