Insulated (Synthetic) Ski Jacket

[Sibhusky]

They've shown an annoying habit in recent years of closing the lifts when it gets really cold... I haven't needed to really dress up in double jackets and double pants for years.

I did just buy a new one of these, tho, so I'm ready. http://www.eddiebauer.com/product/W...111&previousPage=type&pSrch=Superior down iii

 

[Wendy]

They've shown an annoying habit in recent years of closing the lifts when it gets really cold... I haven't needed to really dress up in double jackets and double pants for years.

I did just buy a new one of these, tho, so I'm ready. http://www.eddiebauer.com/product/Womens-Superior-Down-Parka-III/20612412?showProducts=111&previousPage=type&pSrch=Superior down iii

This is a great deal!

 

[Slim]

For a jacket meant for super cold weather, why do you want a waterproof shell fabric?
If it's that cold it won't be raining. At most you will get dry snow, which will slide right off since the super thick insulation will keep the outside fabric cold.

In very cold weather the dew point might be inside your closing layer, severely reducing breathability. For this reason it is very important to make sure the outer layers are extremely breathable in cold weather. That means no WPB membranes!
If it is gale force winds, use a windproof/wind resistant layer somewhere closer to the body.

If your regular shell is Goretex or similar(i.e. not air permeable) that's another reason not to wear it in cold weather, even if you could fit all the insulation underneath comfortably.

I use a Patagonia DAS Parka. They can often be found on close out. It's an ice climbing belay jacket, meant to throw on over your active layers when you stop climbing. This means it has a hood designed to fit over your helmet too, essential in cold wether.
It is one of the few very warm synthetic jackets out there. (120g/m insulation in the torso).

http://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-das-parka/84102.html

If you don't mind going inside and drying out a bit more often, a down jacket with treated down can work well too. Down will keep it's loft much longer than synthetic, and stuff smaller for traveling as well.
There is more choice in super warm down parkas too.

 

[DanoT]

I like wearing a GoreTex shell for it's wind proof abilities and I believe that stopping the wind before it passes through an insulating layer or two is what works best for me. I also like wool over down or synthetic insulation but I do wear some synthetic layers.

 

[Sibhusky]

To be clear, did not buy said jacket for skiing, but for other activities where I'm not moving as much, but it is in the closet and its predecessor did see the occasional snow day (it wasn't waterproof at all, but it's forty years old now and the real coyote fur is breaking down). Normally I just wear the 3-in-1 set up with two different zip in liners (down or Primaloft), maybe even both liners at once, before resorting to a parka like this. This is a bit long for skiing, but can be slightly unzipped to free up your legs. It has a ton of pockets by the way.

Like I said, they shut the lifts these days. I guess they don't like paying for more lifties than they have riders or something. I always like those super cold days, but I have to admit I wouldn't want to be dangling on a stuck lift in that kind of cold.

 

[Slim]

I like wearing a GoreTex shell for it's wind proof abilities .

It depends how windy it is. The higher the windspeed, the more you need wind proofing. At the same time, the windier it is, the less condensation becomes an issue. The thinner your insulation is the better moisture will be managed too. So, yes, in moderate cold, or super windy weather, WPB membranes can work very well.

There is also a difference between wearing a WPB shell jacket, which is what I believe you are saying, vs wearing an insulated jacket with fixed WPB fabric on the outside, which is what a lot of the suggestions above were.

Those insulated WPB jackets are especially problematic in cold weather because any frost/condensation that occurs on the inside of the outer shell fabric wets out the insulation. And then if you want to dry it, the moisture has to transfer through the insulation to dry.
In your case(separate shell), at least when you come inside, you can let your shell dry directly to the air, and the insulation layer can dry as fast as possible since it is not hindered by a WPB membrane on one side.

I believe that stopping the wind before it passes through an insulating layer or two is what works best for me.

Of course it is important to stop the wind sufficiently. However, any high loft, insulated jacket (except for PT Alpha and such), whether down or synthetic, will have a shell fabric that is extremely wind resistant already, so the difference between that and a WPB fabric on the outside is not night and day.
If it is not (extremely) windy, that plain shell fabric will provide more than enough wind resistance on it's own, while keeping moisture levels far lower, ultimately keeping you warmer.

And then there are the days where it is both frigid and blowing super hard, and that rare combo is where I would advocate adding a wind resitant layer closer to the body, since you would still be using the non-WPB parka for it's warmth.

 

[Slim]

T This is a bit long for skiing, but can be slightly unzipped to free up your legs.

Long (especially in the back) is great for cold weather, adds a lot of warmth. And many people don't have suitable lower leg options for arctic cold, since it's hard to layer pants, so covering the butt is a big help. Unless you are hitting moguls comp style with your knees at your chin, what's the problem with some extra length?

Other than that, your legs stay pretty well together most of the time when skiing right?

 

[Monique]

And then there are the days where it is both frigid and blowing super hard, and that rare combo

I don't think of those as rare ... and you're in Minnesota!

 

[Monique]

Long (especially in the back) is great for cold weather, adds a lot of warmth. And many people don't have suitable lower leg options for arctic cold, since it's hard to layer pants, so covering the butt is a big help. Unless you are hitting moguls comp style with your knees at your chin, what's the problem with some extra length?

Other than that, your legs stay pretty well together most of the time when skiing right?

She was talking about something more like greatcoat-length, I think. I would certainly not enjoy skiing in one of those.

 

[Slim]

She was talking about something more like greatcoat-length, I think. I would certainly not enjoy skiing in one of those.

No, the coat Sibhusky was talking about (see link) ended upper thigh, not anywhere near knees or so, your right that would be funny on a skier ;-)

 

[Slim]

I don't think of those as rare ... and you're in Minnesota!

Last winter I don't think I was ever out below much below zero(any activity, not just DH skiing), damn global warming!

Well it depends on your definition of of cold and of rare of course. But I would still say that for most people, they don't often go out skiing when it's both very cold and very windy. For one thing, many lifts close in high winds. Two, it's just not pleasant.

So I would say it's better to pick an insulated parka without WPB shell, because it's the best performing solution in very cold but not gale force weather, and can be adapted (extra wind resistant layer under or over, extra insulation layer) to weather that is both frigid and high wind.
An insulated WPB jacket, is a poor option is extremely cold and not windy weather, and can not be adapted to perform better.

 

[Monique]

Well it depends on your definition of of cold and of rare of course. But I would still say that for most people, they don't often go out skiing when it's both very cold and very windy. For one thing, many lifts close in high winds. Two, it's just not pleasant.

I honestly hadn't considered your points. This is interesting about WPB plus insulation. Relevant because I just bought a Gore-Tex insulated jacket. My old insulated jacket wasn't windproof. Which is one of the reasons I wanted to replace it.

So speaking of wind. The great thing about surface lists is that they can run when the winds are howling. Breck has a T- Bar that runs in some pretty incredible winds. It's fairly high altitude. It services lots of yummy terrain. We joke that it's good for "dermabrasion" treatment as you're coming up the last few hundred feet.

The Imperial and Kensho lifts go very high, within a few hundred feet of the tops of their peaks, and they run in some brutal winds. The Kensho is a six pack, and so will be the new Falcon, which is also incredibly windy. Apparently six packs, being heavier, can run in higher winds.

Brecken"fridge" has plenty of winds. The reported temps are rarely below zero, but when you get to the top of the higher lifts ... I don't know. It's plenty cold for me.

 

[Sibhusky]

Long (especially in the back) is great for cold weather, adds a lot of warmth. And many people don't have suitable lower leg options for arctic cold, since it's hard to layer pants, so covering the butt is a big help. Unless you are hitting moguls comp style with your knees at your chin, what's the problem with some extra length?

Other than that, your legs stay pretty well together most of the time when skiing right?

Actually, I find this long for just walking the dog. It's longer than the forty year old version this replaced. I just unzip about three inches, but that's a huge difference. I'd need to unzip just to sit on the chair. Like I said, not my choice for skiing. It feels confining.

 

[Slim]

Actually, I find this long for just walking the dog. It's longer than the forty year old version this replaced. I just unzip about three inches, but that's a huge difference. I'd need to unzip just to sit on the chair. Like I said, not my choice for skiing. It feels confining.

Good point. I'm sure it depends a lot on the fit of the jacket. I'm a skinny guy, with no hips or butt and men's parkas are always baggy, so I can sit down fine even in my wool dress coat. Women's jackets tend to be more form fitting and women tend to have more hips, so I could see how that could become tight.

And even for me, I agree with you, never buy a long parka without a double zipper or other way to open up the bottom.

 

[Slim]

I honestly hadn't considered your points. This is interesting about WPB plus insulation. Relevant because I just bought a Gore-Tex insulated jacket.

Brecken"fridge" has plenty of winds. The reported temps are rarely below zero, but when you get to the top of the higher lifts ... I don't know. It's plenty cold for me.

Hey, even 15F and wind is plenty cold for me too! I wear warmer clothes DH skiing at those temps the fat biking or XC skiing at -20F!

Most of the GTX insulted jackets are not particularly heavily insulated, commonly with around 60g/m. That's a whole different item than what the OP was asking for, and what I was talking about, which was super-warm parkas, stuff that is several inches thick:

For you, it sounds like you get windy days a lot, so an insulated GTX jacket will work well on many days. Just try and vent it as much as possible (open bottom hem, open pit zips)and don't overdress underneath it. Then once inside try and try it near some warm air, maybe a fan and maybe flip it inside out so it dries quicker(unless the outside is wet).

If your old jacket is plenty warm, I would keep that around for the really cold days (let's say around 5F and below) and perhaps add a wind front layer from biking or XC skiing if your chest is getting to cold from wind. Or a simple non coated windshirt over the top(need to upsize).

 

[Slim]

Layering is just so much more economical. If you have a super insulated jacket, you can only use that on crazy cold days. With layering, you can mix it up to match the conditions, even within a single ski day.

Very true, what ever the base temperature, it can still change a lot. But, you can still layer while using a super warm jacket, the same as you would under a thin shell, it's just that the total system ends up warmer.

I skied seven hours a day in a week of -20 to -30F in Banff last January, and never really got cold... base layer, R1 Hoodie , light down vest, Nano-Air Jacket, and PowSlayer shell. It's not real bulky, and all the layers are thin enough that if I shed them during the day, they don't take up much room in my backpack.
Mehhh... It's not that bad. During the day (lunch, etc) I leave on the R1 and the vest (both very form fitting). The insulating jacket and shell go on/off together. And just think how many beers I can fit in all those pockets!

I often wear a nearly identical outfit, and would agree that it's comfortable and easy to deal with. However, I would wear that stuff at +5F to +20F (depending on wind and precipitation), not below zero!
I have never downhill skied below -5F and I'm not sure I even want too, but if I ever do, I will be wearing way more clothes than that!
Oh, and if it's that cold I'm not drinking beer either! Gluhwein, Irish coffee etc!

My go-to warm jacket for MN winters is a Patagonia DAS parka (discontinued-BOOOOOO!!!). It's the warmest thing I've owned. I've never skied in it because I roast in it hiking/snowshoeing/fatbiking, even below zero. Maybe I'll give it a try this season!

I second your boo, the new belay parka is less warm. :-(

Well,I have fat biked and XC skied many times at -30F, and never come even close to wanting to wear my DAS Parka. I have worn it a few times while DH skiing. DH needs a lot more clothes due to less movement, more exposure, more airspeed. So I would say that makes sense to me.

 

[Monique]

Hey, even 15F and wind is plenty cold for me too! I wear warmer clothes DH skiing at those temps the fat biking or XC skiing at -20F!

Most of the GTX insulted jackets are not particularly heavily insulated, commonly with around 60g/m. That's a whole different item than what the OP was asking for, and what I was talking about, which was super-warm parkas, stuff that is several inches thick:

For you, it sounds like you get windy days a lot, so an insulated GTX jacket will work well on many days. Just try and vent it as much as possible (open bottom hem, open pit zips)and don't overdress underneath it. Then once inside try and try it near some warm air, maybe a fan and maybe flip it inside out so it dries quicker(unless the outside is wet).

If your old jacket is plenty warm, I would keep that around for the really cold days (let's say around 5F and below) and perhaps add a wind front layer from biking or XC skiing if your chest is getting to cold from wind. Or a simple non coated windshirt over the top(need to upsize).

Honestly, I doubt I'll have issues with moisture. We'll find out!

The old jacket has a number of issues, including that the zipper is easy to "miss" so that you find the bottom half of the one-way zipper opening at the most inconvenient times ... and a poorly designed mouth cover so that you find your lips touching moist metal a lot. It could also be a bit longer down my hips - important on powder days!

Honestly, I have my layers pretty dialed and know what I like. Of course, I'm always tweaking just a bit. I hadn't considered the impact of insulation attached to the jacket rather than as a separate layer. I rarely wear puffies because I overheat, and they don't have pit zips (and even if they did, that would be two layers of pit zips to deal with). I figure with an insulated jacket, I can vent for the skiing and zip up for the lift ride.

 

[Monique]

PS - I get cold easily when I sit still, and I burn up and sweat like a pig when I'm moving. I would never wear anything close to my alpine gear when skinning, snow shoeing, etc. It's amazing what you can get away with when continuously moving.

 

[MattD]

add strafe to that list for their use of Alpha. I just get too hot in jackets with heavy insulation mostly due to too much heat retention and moisture build-up.

I've been looking at the Strafe Highlands and Highlands FX jacket ... although even Strafe customer service reps couldn't explain the difference well!

Interestingly, however, they indicated the use of Alpha might not be the warmest option due to the very breathability you mention.

 

[Ron]

Tell them I’ll consult for a jacket

Warmest when? It’s design is fundamentally different in that it’s very warm but wont retain heat like a bivouac jacket but allows moisture to dissipate It supposedly will adsapt to temps. In my experience, it works. It’s designed for high output activities.

http://polartec.com/product/polartec-alpha