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In medium radius turns

L&AirC

PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach
Skier
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Posts
356
Location
Southern NH
I went back and watched the videos more closely on this page and want to bring up some thoughts that coincide with what Zentune and Frankly said. This might have already been covered in previous posts but I would like to put my version on it.

The things that keep sticking out to me is 1) how your arms move and 2) where your torso is pointing. I also think both of these things are connected and they will self correct when you get to the root cause.

Below are my thoughts on it.

Your outside arm appears to be raising and going down hill. I "think" this is because of two things; you're folding too much at the waist (as you mentioned) and I think the root of this is your rotary is coming from your hips or pelvis instead of your femurs turning in your hip socket. If you use your femurs to get your rotary, your torso can be more upright, will face downhill more, keeping your shoulders parallel to the terrain more and you have to move your outside so much. This might also be an indicator of being a little aft. Nor will you fold at the waist as much.

Frankly isn't that far off, though I'm well past the days of recommending smoking weed. You need to loosen up. I would recommend Yoga. I do it almost every day. I didn't start until I was in my 50s and regret I didn't start in my 20s. Along with gaining ROM and strength, you will also gain body awareness and learn how to isolate muscles and muscle groups. This will give you the ability to make fine adjustments instead of gross ones.

I'm not sure if this is happening because you're too tight, or because of an awareness. The exercises in the psoas video will help no matter what.

Have fun,

Ken
 

Doby Man

Out on the slopes
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Aug 22, 2017
Posts
406
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Mostly New England
I agree with L&AirC and Frankly also. I think I detect a fair amount of intent in that inside arm movement that leads me to speculate he is following a directive. There is a certain teaching system that promotes pushing the inside arm forward for the purposes of counteracting/counterbalancing. Like many other things, I believe that is something better taken care of from at and below the waist. The upper body is overrated and why God put all the important stuff below the waist. Just imagine if he didn't. :) Either that, or it is a sloppy schlopy.

While there are many things we can do to loosen up the body so that we can relax and "feel" the turn happening more, sometimes it can be just a matter of simply adding that focus while skiing, something that works for me on the spot should I feel the need. It can be difficult to be loose if one is not equitably stacked against the forces of the turn. With all his new motor patterns, there is only so much focus to go around. It would be very interesting to see what has become successfully ingrained after a full season.
 

ToddW

Outa Here ... No Longer Active on Pugski
Inactive
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
49
Location
Northeast
There is a certain teaching system that promotes pushing the inside arm forward for the purposes of counteracting/counterbalancing. Like many other things, I believe that is something better taken care of from at and below the waist. The upper body is overrated and why God put all the important stuff below the waist. Just imagine if he didn't. :)

My two bits.

1. alexz's skiing does not resemble that "certain teaching system" so it's a bit unclear why you're bringing that stuff up after mentioning his video.

2. That certain teaching system doesn't actually teach pushing the inside arm forward. It teaches observing that arm become forward as a visual externally verifiable indicator that the rest of the body, especially the pelvis, is doing those counteracting / counterbalancing things you mentioned.

And an inquiring mind wants to know: if that teaching system is the "certain system," is the other teaching system then the "uncertain system?" Why can't we just say their names?
 

Doby Man

Out on the slopes
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Aug 22, 2017
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406
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Mostly New England
I am referring to the “pushing the inside arm forward” pattern that L&Airc commented on. Sometimes I like to comment on other comments I agree with, have been thinking about and feel that I may have something helpful to ad. I did not reference the skier’s body of technique in a systemic context, just speculation regarding the one pattern.

That I even grazed the teaching system subject was more because I was tracing a pattern to an intent and to a possible directive that may not be helpful as suggested by a number of other contributors to the thread. Determining whether a skier is following a directive is an important piece of information in terms of why it is there, whether to keep it or how to get past it should the skier decide to do so.

I often use correct form cues for drills and sometimes for skiing. I have often recommended that a skier have both hands in their peripheral vision at all times because it more naturally and flexibly promotes the separation of counter action and counterbalance between the upper and lower body. However, a correct form cue should not be taking place as an additional motor pattern itself such as pushing the arm forward as it may appear to be in the MA videos. Non the less, you and I are in agreement regarding c/a and c/b working from below the waist (some counter balance continues up the spine) and not a kinetic product of what the arms do and therefore not in agreement with pushing the arm forward to achieve counteraction and counter balance.




I prefer to just speak in terms of motor patterns. When I limit my discussion to specific patterns it seems to limit the opportunity for ecclesiastical responses (not referring to yours). Different skiers use different concepts and movements that are seen to derive from different programs and schools of thought. I think the only important schools of thought are the individual ones we build for ourselves on a personal basis as they will never get close to a perfect alignment with anyone else’s. There are plenty enough PSIA, USSA and CSIA that teach pull back and flex to release and PMTS who teach the Schlopy drill, so where things come from are … where they came from in regards to where a student heard it. Ski technique is freely, open sourced information owned by nobody. Alpine ski technique fundamentals were invented by our anatomy, physics and ski equipment manufacturers and it is the human brain that is merely capitalizing on the obvious.

“Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it.” Bruce Lee
 

4ster

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
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Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,219
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Sierra & Wasatch
Ski technique is freely, open sourced information owned by nobody. Alpine ski technique fundamentals were invented by our anatomy, physics and ski equipment manufacturers and it is the human brain that is merely capitalizing on the obvious.

“Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it.” Bruce Lee

^Like
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
12,209
Location
NYC
Ski technique is freely, open sourced information owned by nobody. Alpine ski technique fundamentals were invented by our anatomy, physics and ski equipment manufacturers and it is the human brain that is merely capitalizing on the obvious.

“Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it.” Bruce Lee

:golfclap:
 

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