Hey, Look! Bring Back the Pivot 15

[Bill Talbot]

#bringbackthe15

 

[Philpug]

Since this is SIA weekend in Denver, what better time to bring our NEED for the Pivot 15 out in the open!
Since this site is all about SKIERS and the Pivot 15 is a true skiers binding, let your voices be heard. Now I'll admit
that I may have 'a few' FKS 155's, Pivot 14's and PX 15 Racing bindings squirreled away for a snowy day but that in
know way means that a fresh batch of LOOK Pivot 15's would not be purchased and put on skis tomorrow should that option
become available to us again. With a few up-to-date enhancements like the SS pole point cup and old school colors, I can't see how
they could stay on the dealers shelves for long.
Am I gonna need to print up some 'Bring Back the Pivot 15' tee shirts....

Don't forget the hashtag... #bringbackthe15

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Maybe you can just extract springs from old 15s and put them into 18s (and the DIN windows too).

 

[cantunamunch]

Maybe you can just extract springs from old 15s and put them into 18s (and the DIN windows too).

You think the stop dimensions are the same?

 

[Philpug]

We had some great talks at Look about the #bringbackthe15 movement. Because of what we started here, they are getting calls and e-mails from all over the world. They did not confirm that it is coming back...but they also didn't confirm that it wasn't either.

 

[Ken_R]

We had some great talks at Look about the #bringbackthe15 movement. Because of what we started here, they are getting calls and e-mails from all over the world. They did not confirm that it is coming back...but they also didn't confirm that it wasn't either.

Nice! I saw you in the video talking about that at SIA.

Basically a Pivot 15 is a Pivot 18 with softer springs? If that is the case then it is quite easy to make.

 

[Philpug]

Nice! I saw you in the video talking about that at SIA.

Basically a Pivot 15 is a Pivot 18 with softer springs? If that is the case then it is quite easy to make.

You would think that.

 

[Muleski]

Re: the Look 15, @Philpug, do you sense that the question is whether there really is a market, or whether it might cannibalize margin and sales of the P-18? Or both?

If, heaven forbid, they dropped the 18, and somehow engineered this to have a top DIN of 16 and a low end of 6 or so, I would think they pick up more than they lose. Might be the same at 15.

But I'm the guy doing the modeling/guessing/engineering! In my case the toe of the 14 is not my favorite and the 18 is too much. Age......

 

[Philpug]

Re: the Look 15, @Philpug, do you sense that the question is whether there really is a market, or whether it might cannibalize margin and sales of the P-18? Or both?

If, heaven forbid, they dropped the 18, and somehow engineered this to have a top DIN of 16 and a low end of 6 or so, I would think they pick up more than they lose. Might be the same at 15.

But I'm the guy doing the modeling/guessing/engineering! In my case the toe of the 14 is not my favorite and the 18 is too much. Age......

I think it could be a combination of both along with controlling the amount of SKU's. The key to the success will be not what the high end DIN will be but where it will start. A 16 at the top end is good but it needs to start at a 6 and not a 7. If it is 7, they not need bother.

 

[neonorchid]

- it needs to start at 5 or I'm out. I really don't need anything more than the current Pivot 12 with its ugly new wtr toe-piece.
Anyway, that we're not seeing P15 for '17/18, if available Fall 2018, and assuming I hold off on a new 78mm - 88mm ski till then, I'd pass and get Howell's new binding if it makes it to market as promised.

 

[Philpug]

- it needs to start at 5 or I'm out. I really don't need anything more than the current Pivot 12 with its ugly new wtr toe-piece.
Anyway, that we're not seeing P15 for '17/18, if available Fall 2018, and assuming I hold off on a new 78mm - 88mm ski till then, I'd pass and get Howell's new binding if it makes it to market as promised.

Sorry, but I doubt that is happening. The 6-15 really is the only thing that makes sense because they have the springs engineered and most importantly, paid for already.

 

[neonorchid]

Sorry, but I doubt that is happening. The 6-15 really is the only thing that makes sense because they have the springs engineered and most importantly, paid for already.

...and I can live with that. As I said, when Howell binding is here, I'll have no problem being an early adopter.

 

[Bill Talbot]

I can live with 6-16. Philpug is correct that it's the low end of the range that we are fighting for here.
Marker had the MRR and it's identical except for lower DIN range MR. LOOK was giving us options until the
P15/FKS155 went away. The double pivot 14 toe piece, while a fine toe in it's own right, is not a substitute for the metal, single pivot
toe. But the worst of it is that all the parts we want already exist and are paid for... just package it up for us and rake in the money!

#bringbackthe15

 

[Philpug]

Trust me, this campaign has not gone unnoticed by Look.

 

[Bill Talbot]

What color from the 'Pug Heritage Collection' do you like best with the Renoun Z-Line top sheets?
I'm thinking the Yellow/Black pair could get it done... (matching poles, natch)

 

[ARL67]

A question for the Pivot experts :
I have a mint set of Blossom White Out 176 heading my way and they have flat-mounted Look Pivot 14 WTR on them
There is a chance I may need to remount to accommodate my slightly larger BSL, pending the range adjustment available to me.

So if I need to remount perfectly on the line, the new holes would overlap the old holes.
Option 1: find a plate for the Pivot 14 WTR , which should let me avoid existing holes & offer some for / aft adjustment
Option 2: put on an Attack 13 demo-binding and avoid any existing holes ( I have a spare new set on hand with 84 brakes )
Option 3: sell the Pivot 14 WTR and put on some other "race" type binding

If I go the Pivot plate route, what would you recommend ?
If I go with some other binding, any recommendations ?

thanks ~ Andy

 

[Philpug]

How much do you need? A Pivot has slightly under 10mm of travel. With that said, the ideal way to mount a Pivot is to actually mount it slightly shorter, many shops do not do this and if they did not, it could give you a bit more travel.

Option 1: You have the Pivot, I would start with that and if you need the remount, you already have the binding.
Option 2: I don't think the Whiteout needs a plate, see Option 1
Option 3: If you are to go with another binding, a Marker Xcell or Tyrolia Evo FF is where I would start.

 

[ARL67]

Thanks for the tips Phil.
They are in transit and I won't have them until next week.

 

[Mike Thomas]

What would those of you clamoring for the '15' be WILLING to pay for it? (honestly, would you pay retail??? ... or would you wait for the deals?)

MSRP for a P18 is $425, MAP is $399. The P15 would be the same binding with a lower spring rate... I see no reason why it wouldn't cost the same. Would the market bear that price? Could Look charge more for this wonderful "skier's binding" vs the mighty P18's appeal to only the few?

Inquiring minds would love to know.

 

[Philpug]

What would those of you clamoring for the '15' be WILLING to pay for it? (honestly, would you pay retail??? ... or would you wait for the deals?)

MSRP for a P18 is $425, MAP is $399. The P15 would be the same binding with a lower spring rate... I see no reason why it wouldn't cost the same. Would the market bear that price? Could Look charge more for this wonderful "skier's binding" vs the mighty P18's appeal to only the few?

Inquiring minds would love to know.

@Mike Thomas ,

What about the Pivot 12 and 14? Same binding with a lower spring rate and there is a $50 difference between these two. The benefit for Look goes back to the original post, they would sell more. Shops that do not stock the 18 because of the 8-18 would be more likely to stock a 6-15. A Pivot 15 at $339-359 is line with wht Marker, Tyrolia and Salomon are selling their offerings for and people are buying them. The same people that will wait for a deal on these are the same people who wait fora deal anywhere else but these people are also not buying Pivot 18's.