Dermizax® NX Question

[Read Blinn]

I'm looking at a Kjus jacket (way, way on sale at Sierra Trading Post, or I wouldn't be looking), which uses Dermizax NX. Apparently, breathability isn't about vapor permeability in this fabric, but wicking. Has anybody used a jacket made of this stuff? Comments? I can get kind of sweaty.

 

[jmeb]

I had a pair of bibs made of it. Really liked them, super breathable, perfectly waterproof and durable.

I don't buy that breathability is based in wicking and not permeability. At least not strictly. DNX is rated at 40K -- which is a permeability rating. Trew makes a lot of gear with it -- probably more info on their site.

 

[Read Blinn]

Hm. Sounds good. "Wicking" is what I got from this, by Trew's founder, Chris Pew:

"'We set 20k waterproof as our absolute standard for outerwear, so then the challenge is how you can maintain that standard and still significantly alter breathability. Dermizax NX is a nonporous membrane, so they overcame this challenge at a molecular level.'

"The membrane functions similarly to polyurethane or ePTFE: 'The concentration of water vapor on the inside of the garment dissolves through the membrane to reach the lower levels of water vapor concentration on the outside of the garment,' says Pew. 'The more you sweat the better it works.' In Dermizax NX, Toray created a structure that allows for a faster transmission of water vapor." https://gearpatrol.com/2016/01/28/waterproof-breathable-jacket-technology-explained/

I'm also concerned about water-proofedness, since I ski in the rain sometimes. Gore-tex has always been good to me.

 

[jmeb]

Just as good as Gore-Tex from a waterproof perspective. (Comparing a similarly aged Goretex Pro shell).

 

[Read Blinn]

Ok — fingers crossed. Thanks!

 

[Alexzn]

Hm. Sounds good. "Wicking" is what I got from this, by Trew's founder, Chris Pew:

"'We set 20k waterproof as our absolute standard for outerwear, so then the challenge is how you can maintain that standard and still significantly alter breathability. Dermizax NX is a nonporous membrane, so they overcame this challenge at a molecular level.'

"The membrane functions similarly to polyurethane or ePTFE: 'The concentration of water vapor on the inside of the garment dissolves through the membrane to reach the lower levels of water vapor concentration on the outside of the garment,' says Pew. 'The more you sweat the better it works.' In Dermizax NX, Toray created a structure that allows for a faster transmission of water vapor." https://gearpatrol.com/2016/01/28/waterproof-breathable-jacket-technology-explained/

I'm also concerned about water-proofedness, since I ski in the rain sometimes. Gore-tex has always been good to me.

On the scientific merit, the statement in italics is pure unadulterated BS. The DermizaxNX (polyurethane) membrane function quite differently from ePTFE (GoreTex or eVent). Solution-diffusion based solid membranes (such as the one by Toray) will always be inferior to the porous memrbanes such as GoreTex. Toray's fabric is as good as polyU coatings get, but performance-wise it is still not GoreTex, so if you will get clammy. But you won't have any issues with waterproofing until the DWR coating fails.

Also, Kjus will not warranty a jacket bought from STP (speaking from experience), but I believe STP will still take it back. In my opinion, even at a reduced price you can get a much better jacket for the $ than a Kjus.

 

[Read Blinn]

Ok. The other option is a Strafe with Neoshell, which I’d be comfortable with, especially the breathability, but waterproofedness, too — except it’s awfully minimal. I’ve ordered both. Maybe I’ll return both.

 

[neonorchid]

I'm looking at a Kjus jacket (way, way on sale at Sierra Trading Post, or I wouldn't be looking), which uses Dermizax NX. Apparently, breathability isn't about vapor permeability in this fabric, but wicking. Has anybody used a jacket made of this stuff? Comments? I can get kind of sweaty.

If you sweat alot go with Polartec Neoshell or the latest Gore-tex Pro, not to be confused with Gore-tex Pro Shell which isn't as vapor permeable (breathable) as Gore-tex Pro.
Not sure where you are getting your info but wicking is about lifting sweat from the skin to the outer layer where it can evaporate - which can't happen in a not very vapor permeable greenhouse of a shell.

Btw I have to ask, have you ever tried on a Kjus jacket? I have tried several and they were all terrible, way overdone, "too many notes". The higher end ones feature a balaclava built into an interior zipped pocket at the back below the collar which feels like you grew a hunchback! Kjus collar's are unnecessarily thick. They feel like a neck brace and are on the lower side heightwise, about to the jaw. One high end model had a higher collar which was again too thick and stiff. I also found the jackets to fit on the smallish side.
Of course if you already tried the jacket elsewhere and like it, forget my nit picking. I'm notorious for never being happy with anything!

Good luck with it.

 

[Read Blinn]

Haven’t tried it on. The one I was looking at didn’t seem too too much — it’s a shell. The Strafe looks under-equipped, though. We shall see. I’m operating with a budget — bought boots last week, and a new Mac two months ago — so my choices may be limited.

 

[Tony S]

I learned on Epic that Kjus clothing is one of those topics that attracts a lot of heat. People tend to have religion about it, sometimes lurking just below direct view but nevertheless influencing the wave formations on the surface.

I used one of their jackets for several years. Loved some things about it, disliked some others. I stopped wearing it regularly when the zipper became unreliable, but even without that it was kind of a downer as I became increasingly aware of its message as an item of conspicuous consumption. (Guy in my race league had one and I just thought it looked cool. Still do, truthfully, teased though I was on Epic for finding appeal in "the racer boy look.") Meh. Ignorance was bliss.

 

[neonorchid]

Here is good one for you of Gore-tex Pro (if you're a size large, I tried it at the Marmot store last year and found that they ran small).
https://www.sierratradingpost.com/m...rString=mens-ski-and-snowboard-jackets~d~407/

 

[Alexzn]

^^^^^^^^
This is a pretty sweet deal on a Gore Pro jacket.

 

[Alexzn]

Read- Strafe is actually a pretty nice jacket. It lacks a bit in the pocket department and it has this weird second zipper. I would not worry too much about waterproofness. 10K of the NeoShell is enough unless you sit on it in a puddle or it is a seriously driving rain. Of course with Gore Pro nowadays you get nearly similar breathability and much higher water pressure resistance. NeoShell will still feel more breathable because it is an air-permeable fabric.

 

[Lorenzzo]

If you sweat alot go with Polartec Neoshell or the latest Gore-tex Pro, not to be confused with Gore-tex Pro Shell which isn't as vapor permeable (breathable) as Gore-tex Pro.
Not sure where you are getting your info but wicking is about lifting sweat from the skin to the outer layer where it can evaporate - which can't happen in a not very vapor permeable greenhouse of a shell.

Btw I have to ask, have you ever tried on a Kjus jacket? I have tried several and they were all terrible, way overdone, "too many notes". The higher end ones feature a balaclava built into an interior zipped pocket at the back below the collar which feels like you grew a hunchback! Kjus collar's are unnecessarily thick. They feel like a neck brace and are on the lower side heightwise, about to the jaw. One high end model had a higher collar which was again too thick and stiff. I also found the jackets to fit on the smallish side.
Of course if you already tried the jacket elsewhere and like it, forget my nit picking. I'm notorious for never being happy with anything!

Good luck with it.

If you go to Deer Valley on Kjus days you can't get on the hill without one. They used to have a non-Kjus section in the dining rooms but they've phased it out. It does look like all them rich people are really uncomfortable and unhappy, picking at their neck, crotch, etc. But they look terrific.

 

[Tony S]

See what I mean?

 

[Read Blinn]

Hm. I’m going to have to pass on Neoshell, then. I ski in New England, and I ski whenever I can, which means in puddles sometimes.

Guess it’s Gore-Tex pro, if I can find something in my price range, in medium (I’m 41, max), and maybe not orange — but I appreciate it, @neonorchid.

 

[Read Blinn]

See what I mean?

Yeah. It’s like Porsche-resentment. I guess it isn’t good policy to appear rich these days (even at $500 off), though. Bad enough being a skier.

 

[jmeb]

NeoShell is available in a number of different configs and is bomber waterproof. A Pug Skier favorite -- FreeRide Systems -- uses it almost exclusively.

As someone who owns a FreeRide Systems neoshell -- it is just as good as GoreTex in heavy rain. But is more durable at the expense of weight.

 

[Read Blinn]

Apropos brands, Arc’teryx is expensive, too, and while I hear murmuring, it doesn’t seem to elicit quite the resentment that other brands get. Maybe it works better? Price, in that case, =, at least, function and quality?

 

[jmeb]

Honestly, check out FreeRide systems if you want a bomber waterproof ski jacket that will last you a long time, made in the USA, and the most personalized customer service you'll ever get. I believe the rep that hangs out on PugSki is @TheBestSkier .

If its good enough for ABC Hurricane crews, its good enough for skiing in the NE.

Also, keep in mind that while their prices on their website may be a little sticker shock -- there are pugskier discounts which bring them down a good bit.