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Don Duran

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A simple solution (or simpler one) is to think about the inside half leading through the turn and the inside hip remaining over the inside arch. The net effect is your pelvis and sternum face the apex of the upcoming turn. From there the serpentine move (Joubert; Ski the New French Way) happens as the core migrates towards that next apex and the feet migrate across the hill.
 

Monique

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In extreme cases it manifests as the upper body facing uphill. Upper-lower body separation turned to evil!

Whoa!

A simple solution (or simpler one) is to think about the inside half leading through the turn and the inside hip remaining over the inside arch. The net effect is your pelvis and sternum face the apex of the upcoming turn. From there the serpentine move (Joubert; Ski the New French Way) happens as the core migrates towards that next apex and the feet migrate across the hill.

Um. I'll have to take your word for it being simple, because the way you described is wayyyy into the realm of obscure instructor-to-instructor speak.

(Just pointing it out. I personally have lots of tools to use to address the issue, don't want any more right now!)
 

RuleMiHa

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A simple solution (or simpler one) is to think about the inside half leading through the turn and the inside hip remaining over the inside arch. The net effect is your pelvis and sternum face the apex of the upcoming turn. From there the serpentine move (Joubert; Ski the New French Way) happens as the core migrates towards that next apex and the feet migrate across the hill.
I've seen myself on video, I have the unenviable skill of being able to be facing my skis appropriately and leading into the turn with my inside half (I have to use my hand as a cue) but still have my entire body leaning back into the hill. I have to focus on reaching down with my pole plant to obliterate the move back into the hill(I have a tricky brain, it always tries to find a way.)
 

Pat AKA mustski

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Think long leg short leg. I still remember a high traverse at Taos where my 5'4" wife struggled to keep her downhill ski on the snow since her uphill leg was fully flexed and the slope required that much vertical separation.
Yup. At 5’2”, I have encountered that particular conundrum. It gets worse as I get older and my flexibility gets lesser. You would think stretching would help, but it seems to have little effect. Traverses are the worst. I remember one traverse that was a “shortcut” back to the home side of the mountain. My uphill leg was so cramped up by the time we got to a downhill line, that I had to ski on one leg for a bit. BTW- one leg skiing is not a strength of mine, but I was desperate. I try to stick to downhill lines and avoid steep traverses at all costs.
 

Rod9301

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Yup. At 5’2”, I have encountered that particular conundrum. It gets worse as I get older and my flexibility gets lesser. You would think stretching would help, but it seems to have little effect. Traverses are the worst. I remember one traverse that was a “shortcut” back to the home side of the mountain. My uphill leg was so cramped up by the time we got to a downhill line, that I had to ski on one leg for a bit. BTW- one leg skiing is not a strength of mine, but I was desperate. I try to stick to downhill lines and avoid steep traverses at all costs.
It's not flexibility. Keep your skis really close together, you won't have any problems with steep traverses.
 

Rod9301

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Even close together, steep traverses push my uphill leg into a deeper flex than usual. This causes intense cramping in my calf.
Even at 50 degrees, and I doubt you're on something that steep, your uphill boot is maybe 6-8" higher than the downhill one, so the cramping comes from something else.
Put your ski boots on, one on the floor, and one on a chair, and see if it cramps.

I don't think it will, and that's going to be way over 60 degrees.
 

Pat AKA mustski

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Even at 50 degrees, and I doubt you're on something that steep, your uphill boot is maybe 6-8" higher than the downhill one, so the cramping comes from something else.
No doubt. It’s from poor ankle flexion. Keep in mind that this was not skiing; it was traversing for quite awhile across some steep terrain. It’s taken a year of MD and PT visits to figure out that my right side issues are coming from poor ankle flexion. When flexion is the issue - 6-8 inches is quite a bit!
 

oldschoolskier

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I've seen myself on video, I have the unenviable skill of being able to be facing my skis appropriately and leading into the turn with my inside half (I have to use my hand as a cue) but still have my entire body leaning back into the hill. I have to focus on reaching down with my pole plant to obliterate the move back into the hill(I have a tricky brain, it always tries to find a way.)
Old school trick, reach across with the inside hand and touch the outside, outside side of the ski boot, you will lean out and over (and to the extreme). It will prove to you it can be done and get you used to a more correct position. Do several left rights and then ski normally to you will find you will likely be better positioned.

Trick your mind.
 

PTskier

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Amy, it looks like you're still here. How about starting a new thread relating how the things suggested here help, or don't help, or harm, your skiing on steep stuff as the new season progresses?

Two thoughts on the topic: First, find your balance point. Find the cues that tell you when you're correctly balanced over your skis. When your skis are correctly back under your body center of mass. And when you're correctly balanced facing the outside of the turn, not leaning toward the hill or rotated toward the hill, hands in a good position. My cues are that I'm on the balls of my feet, my head & shoulders feel like the first body parts down the hill, the shin pressure against my boot tongues is an indicator (not a goal) of how far I've pulled my skis back under my center of mass. I've learned to always keep my outside shoulder & hand low & back with my inside hand & shoulder high & forward. You may have different cues. Find yours. Practice, practice, practice, every run, every turn, until your cues for balance become automatic for you regardless of the slope, the speed, the size of the turn, the type of snow. If you're still thinking about your cues, you haven't learned them yet. Keep practicing until you find your cues while you think about something else.

Second, at your home area you know so well, pick out steep-ish faces that are short with a safe, comfy run-out below them. Start off just traversing across the steep part, always in balance as you've developed your cues. As some of these steep-ish faces get easy for you, always in balance, find a longer drop on the same faces, hopefully a place where you can put one turn in before you get to the bottom. Then another spot with two turns. Or a face that is steeper yet, but still do-able. (I was about to wish you good luck, but...)
original.jpg


Lucius Annaeus Seneca lived from 4 BC to 65 AD, and what he said always remains true.
 
Last edited:
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AmyPJ

AmyPJ

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Amy, it looks like you're still here. How about starting a new thread relating how the things suggested here help, or don't help, or harm, your skiing on steep stuff as the new season progresses?

Two thoughts on the topic: First, find your balance point. Find the cues that tell you when you're correctly balanced over your skis. When your skis are correctly back under your body center of mass. And when you're correctly balanced facing the outside of the turn, not leaning toward the hill or rotated toward the hill, hands in a good position. My cues are that I'm on the balls of my feet, my head & shoulders feel like the first body parts down the hill, the shin pressure against my boot tongues is an indicator (not a goal) of how far I've pulled my skis back under my center of mass. I've learned to always keep my outside shoulder & hand low & back with my inside hand & shoulder high & forward. You may have different cues. Find yours. Practice, practice, practice, every run, every turn, until your cues for balance become automatic for you regardless of the slope, the speed, the size of the turn, the type of snow. If you're still thinking about your cues, you haven't learned them yet. Keep practicing until you find your cues while you think about something else.

Second, at your home area you know so well, pick out steep-ish faces that are short with a safe, comfy run-out below them. Start off just traversing across the steep part, always in balance as you've developed your cues. As some of these steep-ish faces get easy for you, always in balance, find a longer drop on the same faces, hopefully a place where you can put one turn in before you get to the bottom. Then another spot with two turns. Or a face that is steeper yet, but still do-able. (I was about to wish you good luck, but...)
original.jpg


Lucius Annaeus Seneca lived from 4 BC to 65 AD, and what he said always remains true.
This is good stuff. Thanks!! I'll start a thread when we get to ski again. Winter is taking its time here...
 

oldschoolskier

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@AmyPJ it seems that you are getting two simple pieces of advice and I hope you don’t mind if I sum it up.

  • Mental preparation, pretty straight forward in various forms, the short answer being “Attack it”!
  • Technique correction, again in various form, with the short answer being “Get over the skis”!
The common thing is both are various forms of aggressive behaviors in the aspect of dealing with fear.

Don’t over think things or believe you have too many, truthfully you likely have both already, so nows it implementation. To modify a quote from my favorite little master Yoda “Don’t Think, Don’t Try, just DO!” and fear will come later when it’s too late, now it’s a rush.

Remember “KISS” keep it simple stupid (no offense meant).

:beercheer::crossfingers:
 
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AmyPJ

AmyPJ

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OSS, that's my goal--KISS! I'm going to take in as little "external" information as possible, and focus on one or two things at a time. When I start to master some new mindsets and movement patterns, then I can identify another one or two things to work on.
 

oldschoolskier

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OSS, that's my goal--KISS! I'm going to take in as little "external" information as possible, and focus on one or two things at a time. When I start to master some new mindsets and movement patterns, then I can identify another one or two things to work on.
Don’t forget to chew JuiceFruit gum. ogsmile
 

PTskier

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The front half and back half of our skis have two different purposes. The front half provides control and takes us where we want to go...if we engage it in the snow. The back half takes us for a ride, straight & fast.

How many things is this skier doing wrong?
photo-28-620x465.jpg


Let's say that each person's center of mass (CoM) is somewhere between the belt line and the lowest rib. Let's say that the ski's sweet spot (sweet area) is somewhere a bit forward of the toe binding. (Lots of variability in each assumption.) Let's say that the skis ski their best when the center of mass is over part of that sweet spot. Weight needs to be over the front half of the skis to engage the tips in the snow to give the skier all the control possible. Too far forward and the tips will dive in soft snow, and even on harder snow the skier won't be balanced for anything that comes. Get the sweet spots under the CoM and the skis are best able to do what the skier wants them to do. On a steep pitch where the turns need to be tight and right-now!, putting the front of that sweet area way back and under the CoM engages the ski tips in the snow even more, then the skier can get more centered as that turn progresses.

So...This unknown skier I found on the interwebz has the CoM behind the heels. Big limitations here. The inside (right in this case) hand and shoulder are back & low. That much bend in the knees is tiring and a weak position . This skier can't do much from this position.

Here's Mikaela Shiffrin showing how her ski tips are engaged in the snow to make them turn her. The same physics relate to racers' skis just like our skis.

upload_2017-11-25_12-29-20.jpeg
 

RuleMiHa

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Philadelphia, PA
The front half and back half of our skis have two different purposes. The front half provides control and takes us where we want to go...if we engage it in the snow. The back half takes us for a ride, straight & fast.

How many things is this skier doing wrong?
photo-28-620x465.jpg


Let's say that each person's center of mass (CoM) is somewhere between the belt line and the lowest rib. Let's say that the ski's sweet spot (sweet area) is somewhere a bit forward of the toe binding. (Lots of variability in each assumption.) Let's say that the skis ski their best when the center of mass is over part of that sweet spot. Weight needs to be over the front half of the skis to engage the tips in the snow to give the skier all the control possible. Too far forward and the tips will dive in soft snow, and even on harder snow the skier won't be balanced for anything that comes. Get the sweet spots under the CoM and the skis are best able to do what the skier wants them to do. On a steep pitch where the turns need to be tight and right-now!, putting the front of that sweet area way back and under the CoM engages the ski tips in the snow even more, then the skier can get more centered as that turn progresses.

So...This unknown skier I found on the interwebz has the CoM behind the heels. Big limitations here. The inside (right in this case) hand and shoulder are back & low. That much bend in the knees is tiring and a weak position . This skier can't do much from this position.

Here's Mikaela Shiffrin showing how her ski tips are engaged in the snow to make them turn her. The same physics relate to racers' skis just like our skis.

View attachment 33855
There are many, many problems with that image and as you say the inside hand and shoulder are a problem. But that much bend in the knees might be desirable in a flex to release transition, in the middle of the transition (when skis are weightless), it would just need to be followed by a pullback to recenter. One of the big problems I see, is that for this person who has really, really long femurs, is that it would take a massive recentering pullback to get her out of the backseat.
 

oldschoolskier

Making fresh tracks
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The front half and back half of our skis have two different purposes. The front half provides control and takes us where we want to go...if we engage it in the snow. The back half takes us for a ride, straight & fast.

How many things is this skier doing wrong?
photo-28-620x465.jpg


Let's say that each person's center of mass (CoM) is somewhere between the belt line and the lowest rib. Let's say that the ski's sweet spot (sweet area) is somewhere a bit forward of the toe binding. (Lots of variability in each assumption.) Let's say that the skis ski their best when the center of mass is over part of that sweet spot. Weight needs to be over the front half of the skis to engage the tips in the snow to give the skier all the control possible. Too far forward and the tips will dive in soft snow, and even on harder snow the skier won't be balanced for anything that comes. Get the sweet spots under the CoM and the skis are best able to do what the skier wants them to do. On a steep pitch where the turns need to be tight and right-now!, putting the front of that sweet area way back and under the CoM engages the ski tips in the snow even more, then the skier can get more centered as that turn progresses.

So...This unknown skier I found on the interwebz has the CoM behind the heels. Big limitations here. The inside (right in this case) hand and shoulder are back & low. That much bend in the knees is tiring and a weak position . This skier can't do much from this position.

Here's Mikaela Shiffrin showing how her ski tips are engaged in the snow to make them turn her. The same physics relate to racers' skis just like our skis.

View attachment 33855

Let’s deal with the first couple of mistakes that are made.....

Fat reverse chamber twin tip skis. Never will understand proper technique. :rolleyes:
 

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