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Canting to straighten knee, effects on skiing?

nemesis256

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I just saw a boot footer who figured out my knees are pointing inwards somewhat, and said I should have canting on the inside of the foot to straighten the knee. He used this red laser to find this, and the laser hit the outside of my knee cap instead of the center. So it's off by about an inch.

My question is, since I've had this wrong for 3+ seasons, what is the effect on skiing? Is turn initiation on the inside ski easier? Is holding the edge on the outside ski going to be more difficult?
 

CalG

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I feel it might be important to review "canting".
Very briefly, there are two entirely different schools of thought on this topic.

One school of thought fashions cants that adjust the SKI under the skier to lay flat on a horizontal surface when the skier is standing "normally". (Call it the Soft Snow School of Canting)

The other school of thought fashions canting devices that attempt to relocate the position of the center of knee over the centerline of the ski , or some other desired location, when standing on a hard horizontal surface.
(Call this the racers School of Canting)

A moments consideration of these two "proven effective" canting methods will allow visualization. Note that the two schools would execute the placement of the canting devices Directly opposite!
One would have the thick wedge on the outside for the exact same diagnosis that the other places the thick wedge on the inside. Go figure!

In this light, One must take the entire canting thing with some degree of abstraction or complete conviction to a half picture. Either way, Our bodies are amazing machines and are very adaptable.

edits
The "schools of thought" were reversed. The Racer wants to be stacked perfectly, and is willing to relearn anything and everything to achieve this goal.
 
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Josh Matta

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It physics only one school of thought actually works.....it the law of natures dictate both can not be right.

knees in (aka knock kneed) inside of the boot gets raised.

Knees out (aka bow legged) outisde of the boots gets raised.

IF you know alignment well enough you can fix people, or legit screw them up by taking them out of good alignment.

If anyone doubts me back it up with objective points and why its wrong. if you close enough let me CANT you out of your good alignment.
 

CalG

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Josh, Your post indicates your preference to "move the knee".
How can that work with a person who's normal walking stance has the knee either displaced laterally or medially?

Won't that persons "particular" physiology dominate in soft snow conditions?

eta
Canting is a "last resort" technique only applied after proper foot beds and cuff positioning are exercised.
 
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Josh Matta

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as someone who walks with my left knee knocked in quite bit. Accommodating my knock knees makes me ski worse. I have never ran into someone that doesnt work like the above, and I only relent with this assertion with video or pictures of people before boot work was done, and after. If you have the video people post, I can produce video of "going against" instantly. It also not about look its about being able to get a flat ski and tip that ski on edge.

Cuff alignment doesnt take in to affect, the angle people's femurs leave their pelvis bone. cuff alignment only should be used for how the lower leg is aligned to the foot.

lastly realize that heel lifting makes knees goes in, and and toe lifting makes the knees go out.......Fore and aft should be address before lateral is touched.
 
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Josh Matta

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Curious who can tell which way this skier was Canted? and how the cuff alignment was changed....

11142434_10100498975012242_6351704497258402269_n.jpg


Before is left, after is right.
 

CalG

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Curious who can tell which way this skier was Canted? and how the cuff alignment was changed....

11142434_10100498975012242_6351704497258402269_n.jpg


Before is left, after is right.

The images show a skier "relearning" stance and posture (even temporarily as the photo is being taken}

That same accommodation might possibly be applied in a broader sense?

Question Josh, What angle does the femur leave the hip socket? Is that joint not "open" to all angles of motion? It is a ball joint after all.
Musculature?
 

Josh Matta

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well the boot alignment was changed....its pretty easy to spot if you know what your looking for by your post it sounds like you should know what your looking for.
 

CalG

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I know what works for me, But I really can not say what works for others.
 

Josh Matta

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well then post some picture of videos of you before the alignment and after....
 

CalG

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I'm not a visual person. I don't "do pictures". Feeling is my choice. I ski for the motor sensation, not for how it looks.
 

Josh Matta

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what a cop out....


you do realize what feels better is typically what a body is used to, not what is actually better.

Honestly if your right about your the idea to bring the ski flat video of before and after will prove me wrong. Picture may even do it. It would objectively prove me wrong. Unless you or someone else can provide objective proof its just hearsay.
 

CalG

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Skiing is a real sensory sport. When you find the "sweet spot" on your ski, turning becomes far less work. When you feel yourself balance on the outside leg at the top of the turn, it gives you the ability to shape the turn. When you allow separation to occur between the upper and lower body, your legs "unwind" into the next turn all on their own. These kinds of outcomes give you physical "feelings" in your body. Once you've locked in a feeling, it becomes your reference point. If the next time you ski, that "feeling" is gone, you can run through your checklist and self-assess and self-correct. E.g. when I'm not feeling good steering or can't easily initiate a short radius, for me, I revisit my separation and my mobility, and 9 times out of 10, I can get that feeling back. But I can only self-correct because I experienced those good feelings in the first place.

Quote from another thread.

In these times of internet imagery, "pictures don't lie", and "photo shopped" are equally valid.

Cop out? I could say something, but refrain.
 

Josh Matta

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lots of words with no objectivity.

Proper alignment is super simple to see, even though its affects are physical.
 

CalG

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lots of words with no objectivity.

Proper alignment is super simple to see, even though its affects are physical.

Are you rejecting the school of thought opposite of yours, as quackery?

Bold!

eta
You do recognize, those are not my words, but are the expression of another forum member. The quote taken from another thread. I thought it relevant to this discussion, that sems to have tipped to the absolutes of "It Physics" and "It Nature". to quote you.
 

Josh Matta

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I am calling it pure quackery and so far no one is able to objectively defend it.

prove me wrong or I am right in my observations. Show me one example of someone who was canted to accommodate and not go against before and after. Physics doesn't care about your feeling. Picture will prove me wrong. I will not comment again until there is objectivity from the other side, which there can not be. Videos are much harder to alter than photo but why would I alter photos.
 
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CalG

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Curious who can tell which way this skier was Canted? and how the cuff alignment was changed....

11142434_10100498975012242_6351704497258402269_n.jpg


Before is left, after is right.

Look at the pelvis in these two photos.
That says it all.
 

CalG

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I am calling it pure quackery and so far no one is able to objectively defend it.

prove me wrong or I am right in my observations. Show me one example of someone who was canted to accommodate and not go against before and after. Physics doesn't care about your feeling. Picture will prove me wrong. I will not comment again until there is objectivity from the other side, which there can not be. Videos are much harder to alter than photo but why would I alter photos.

I have nothing to say to one who stands upon a "Prove me wrong, else I am right" position. More so, when demanding " pictures" as verification.
It may come as a shock, but the entire world does not care a hoot about what any one person espouses as correct.
 

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