Can you carve ice?

[at_nyc]

Not glare ice, just very hard, skied-off hardpack. Actually I know some of you can, but I'm looking for what will work for us mere mortals.

Although I live in the northeast, majority of my skiing had been in the west...

Bigger mountains, softer snow, fewer crowds. Those being the reasons. But in the process, I've bypassed the requisite training on skiing ice!

This being the season of low snow and limited terrains, I found myself skiing groomers quite a bit more even in my trip west. This reminds me this isn't an unique experience. There had been days in my past trip when off-piste was just too crappy to venture into and I was force to amuse myself on the groomer. Though usually due to the low skier traffics, it's rare the groomers are HARD as ice as in the east. I'm slowly acquiring a liking of slicing through soft edgeable packed powder. Whether that qualifies as carving, is anybody's guess.

Still, I wonder if it's time I round off my skill repertoire by adding slick groomers to the mix. After all, I do get a lot of opportunity to practice near home.

So, not exactly ICE. And not necessarily limited to pure carving. Just any well controlled, fun way of conquering, even possibly enjoying the groomer, even when the fresh snow had been skied off and the surface slowly turning to something resembling ice...?

At a speed that's safe enough to use when sharing runs with other skiers.

 

[scott43]

Yes. But it's a bit of a confidence game..you need to get it on edge and if you chicken out, you slide more..

 

[François Pugh]

Yes, but I need sharp edges, and I cannot turn hard. Beware of boot-out if you have wide feet and no lifter plates!
The word like to use for carving on ice is scribe .

 

[Large Squirrel]

I remember such conditions at Stratton. they had groomed overnite when it was above freezing, then temps crashed.....it was aweful! thought my fillings were going to be jarred loose...

but, yes...it takes loads of confidence to commit to setting an edge on that stuff. sharp skis help, and take lessons gear around carving/racing.

 

[jack97]

Go to any place that has a race program for teens and pre teens, you will see them at various stages of development. This in itself should convince anyone that carving hardpack can be done, if you take time to learn.

The other item are the skis themselves, find some that has excellent torsional rigidity. Once a ski loses this rigidity and can't hold an edge, it becomes rock skis use only for spring conditions.

 

[crgildart]

Too slow or too few g forces and you don't have enough down force for the edges to bite and hold.. Too much speed for the arc of the turn and g forces and it will break loose. Best to keep more over both skis in case it breaks loose so you don't slam your hip on it. Ride the rails when you know you are crossing the worst of it.. save the pivots and checking for before or after the nastiest parts. Even at my best I wouldn't commit more than about 50% if what I'd throw down on good snow. but I can definitely function on most of the hard stuff. Solid sleet coated stuff is another matter.. no thanks hahahaha! There is a reason ski patrols will close stuff when it gets like that..

 

[Fishbowl]

I won’t go as far as to say “carve”, but I never thought I could make clean turns on hard pack. Then I got a pair of narrow skis with sharp edges, and I can.

 

[Jilly]

Yes, with my tuned down race skis that have sharp edges....

 

[Doug Briggs]

Sharp edges, high angles, commitment to the turn and strength are all required to carve ice like a World Cupper. I can do it but I don't usually bother. I'm content to slarve my way around on ice until I get to the 3D snow, conserving energy for the funner stuff.

 

[KevinF]

Being a New England'er, if I couldn't turn on hardpack I'd be finding a new winter sport.

For me, my prowess on ice depends largely on what skis are on my feet. An all-mountain ski (high 80's, low 90's underfoot, high teens turn radius, etc) can turn on the hard stuff, but it requires some serious commitment to get onto edge cleanly and to guide it through a reasonably sized turn.

Full-blown race carvers though make the same conditions easy (or at least vastly easier) and more fun.

 

[Ken_R]

Yes. But it's a bit of a confidence game..you need to get it on edge and if you chicken out, you slide more..

Bingo. I tested this yesterday at Beaver Creek on the Golden Eagle downhill / gs race course. I found some really polished patches. Basically glaring ice. My skis held but I had to have a lot of finesse or not turn until I went over a softer section.

 

[scott43]

Sharp edges, high angles, commitment to the turn and strength are all required to carve ice like a World Cupper. I can do it but I don't usually bother. I'm content to slarve my way around on ice until I get to the 3D snow, conserving energy for the funner stuff.

Friggin westerners...

 

[wutangclan]

From a technical standpoint, carving ice is dependent on a few key skills:

1) Riding the center or even the tail of the ski. If you're always riding the nose (which is tempting because it makes makes turn initiation easy), forget about having any real grip.
2) Developing high edge angles through angulation (bending your various joints), not just inclination (moving your overall mass to the inside). Angulation can be performed without much speed, whereas inclination can only happen with speed.
3) Steering smooth, round turns, so that there is no sudden onset of pressure that exceeds available grip.

 

[mdf]

Full-blown race carvers though make the same conditions easy (or at least vastly easier) and more fun.

Yep. Any ski can work up through quite-hard hardpack, but the right tool makes real ice feasible for us mere mortals. I'm sure you remember the day I went back to the car to get my slalom skis after one run.

 

[at_nyc]

3) Steering smooth, round turns, so that there is no sudden onset of pressure that exceeds available grip.

I think that's one area I'm not doing too well. I tried carving on progressively slick surfaces, at some point the skis started to break free.

Any drills to work on in managing pressure?

2) Developing high edge angles through angulation. Angulation can be performed without much speed, whereas inclination can only happen with speed.

I like the "without much speed" part. It's not always easy to find empty runs to practice on.

 

[MikeS]

What I always say about carving on ice is that it's counterintuitive. Your brain and body is saying "take it easy, don't go too hard." But the only way to get that ski to bite is to increase your edge angle and increase pressure. I use an analogy often where I compare my ski edges to knives. If i'm cutting through a piece of meat, and I get to a piece of gristle, am I going to cut through that gristle by using less pressure and maybe trying to cut at a low angle? Nope, I need to bear down on the knife and cut straight through. Same deal with hard snow.

If anyone is into motorsports, particularly Formula 1, it's the same principle. In most cars, you need to slow down to keep from losing control, it's just the general rule. But in F1, if you slow the car down too much, you lose downforce, so you lose control. To maintain control in an F1 car, you need to go faster. It's backwards, but true. Same thing with skiing on ice. You want to get through the turn, you have to go harder, bigger, and faster.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Skiing on a sheet of ice was what made me buy my Atomic Redsters. I'd turn and those things would bite into the ice and hold like a rabid dog.

 

[slowrider]

Start on bunny runs when it's firm. Work on balancing on your outside ski inside edge. Kind of like learning to ski all over again. Without sharp edges your wasting your time. There are some icy contions that you just can't get an edge in.

 

[graham418]

You have to to start your edge very high up in the arc, and build it gradually in order to get a grip. If you wait too long and try to edge hard down in the bottom of the arc, (jamming it on , so to speak) the edge will be overloaded and break free.

 

[Chris Walker]

Sharp edges, high angles, commitment to the turn and strength are all required to carve ice like a World Cupper. I can do it but I don't usually bother. I'm content to slarve my way around on ice until I get to the 3D snow, conserving energy for the funner stuff.

Huh. I have to tell you @Doug Briggs, that this surprises me, since you're probably one of the few people I know of who can really do this well. For myself I generally settle for slarving on ice, but due to a lack of skill not interest. On the few occasions I've managed to really ride a clean arc at speed in true ice, I would say it's one of the best sensations in skiing-- right up there with floating on powder. To each their own, I guess.