BREAKING NEWS: RENOUN Granted Patent for HDT

[fatbob]

Are Renoun actually using D30 or another NNM? I must admit previous threads had led me to believe it wasn't D30 itself. Props to Cyrus for getting the patent - kinda surprised that no-one had previously put one in given the attention to damping in skis over the years but I guess that's what makes their product different. Will be interesting where they go with it - license it and their own product loses its USP but $$, retain exclusivity and fight infringements while trying to scale.

 

[PisteOff]

Congratulations to @Cyrus Schenck ! It will be interesting to see where Cyrus takes Renoun. In the meantime I will be enjoying my Endurance 98’s which I expect to have in a couple weeks!

 

[Lorenzzo]

I'm pretty sure oatmeal is Non-Newtonian. At least it tastes like it.

 

[coskigirl]

I'm pretty sure oatmeal is Non-Newtonian. At least it tastes like it.

 

[coskigirl]

Are Renoun actually using D30 or another NNM? I must admit previous threads had led me to believe it wasn't D30 itself. Props to Cyrus for getting the patent - kinda surprised that no-one had previously put one in given the attention to damping in skis over the years but I guess that's what makes their product different. Will be interesting where they go with it - license it and their own product loses its USP but $$, retain exclusivity and fight infringements while trying to scale.

The way the full patent is written I think they are using it currently but that the patent isn't restricted to just D30 in the future.

 

[PTskier]

"D3O uses a combination of patented, patent-pending and proprietary technologies to make rate-sensitive, soft, flexible materials with high shock absorbing properties."
https://www.d3o.com/what-is-d3o/materials/

"Shear-thickening plastics are gels, with long-chain polymers suspended in a liquid lubricant that lets them flow smoothly past one another at slow speeds. Coax them slowly and the chains have plenty of time to slither about, like snakes, and change position; in other words, the material will bend and flex smoothly in response to a slowly and gently applied force. Hit it or try to move it more suddenly and the chains don't have time to rearrange themselves properly. The polymer snakes tangle and lock together, and the liquid no longer lubricates them properly. A smoothly flowing gel suddenly turns rock-hard!"
http://www.explainthatstuff.com/energy-absorbing-materials.html
Apparently they also release very rapidly.

 

[T-Square]

Here you go. Walking on custard, a non-Newtonian liquid.


Also, look up oobleck.

 

[Andy Mink]

I hope Cyrus continues to make the skis himself instead of selling the technology. I've seen other instances where big corp gets small guy's idea and either changes it enough to make it not so good and/or raises the price. Renouns are $$$ enough; if some monster bought the idea it could either be a) more expensive or b) shelved to keep from competing with another technology.

Either way, great job Cyrus and Renoun!

 

[Doug Briggs]

So the flexible stuff in my Slytek stealth top is non-newtonian material? Cool.

 

[Muleski]

So the flexible stuff in my Slytek stealth top is non-newtonian material? Cool.

Yep. First appeared in the ski world in the WC suits made fit CAST and the USST. Right after the Austrians did not renew the contract, ha, ha. My kid's first impression was "wow, why does this suit weigh this much more?" The stuff works!

Non-Newtonian was not on the list, Ha!

Slytech back pads, stealths, the gloves all have it.

 

[Philpug]

I hope Cyrus continues to make the skis himself instead of selling the technology. I've seen other instances where big corp gets small guy's idea and either changes it enough to make it not so good and/or raises the price. Renouns are $$$ enough; if some monster bought the idea it could either be a) more expensive or b) shelved to keep from competing with another technology.

Either way, great job Cyrus and Renoun!

I know of more than one manufacturer who has bought some Renouns with the thought of reverse engineering them. IMHO patent will protect Cyrus on this application. I will ad, it is not just the HDT that makes the Z90 special, it is the shape of the ski too.

 

[Uncle-A]

Congratulations to Cyrus and Renoun. I guess that the next question may be because so many of our people love racing skis when will Renoun put together a racing ski and program?

 

[PisteOff]

Congratulations to Cyrus and Renoun. I guess that the next question may be because so many of our people love racing skis when will Renoun put together a racing ski and program?

That would likely precipitate a Head buy out of Renoun lol........

 

[Muleski]

Not sure if the material would really help race skis. Believe me, it's been discussed a great deal. Not like this is brand new technology for Cyrus, or top secret. As soon as folks realized he was on to something, yes, as @Philpug says, engineers started to cut them up.

Nothing new there, in terms of learning that way. Been going on for 50 years.

If the material giving race skis a big advantage was believed to be the case, the Head comment is not off base. I'm sure that others would be using it. Maybe they have been?

Good for Cyrus to have the patent in hand. Love to root for the little guy!

 

[PisteOff]

Good for Cyrus to have the patent in hand. Love to root for the little guy!

Indeed! One of the reasons I bought his product. American made is another.

Excited about the Renouns. Excited about the coming season. Looking forward to seeing where Cyrus takes his company.

 

[PTskier]

Is there another producer of non-newtonian damping materials other than 3do? Can another ski maker buy and use rate-sensitive damping material from another supplier?

Does Renoun have an exclusive contract with d3o for their material that is used in skis & snowboards? Can d3o sell rate-sensitive damping material to another ski maker?

I don't expect anyone here to have these answers. The patent does put Renoun in a good place.

 

[PisteOff]

Is there another producer of non-newtonian damping materials other than 3do? Can another ski maker buy and use rate-sensitive damping material from another supplier?

Does Renoun have an exclusive contract with d3o for their material that is used in skis & snowboards? Can d3o sell rate-sensitive damping material to another ski maker?

I don't expect anyone here to have these answers. The patent does put Renoun in a good place.

You can mix it yourself with easy to obtain ingredients.........

 

[skibob]

I didn't know one could patent a different usage of an existing material. Anyway, a patent just makes it easier to sue someone who is using your idea. Muleski has the good idea...license the patent to other ski makers and rake in bushels of money.

I've seen patents granted for merely changing the name of something that already exists. Some patent examiners are very astute. But some are . . . lacking in the finer points of their supposed fields. As you can imagine, it pays very poorly compared to other engineering jobs.

As for whether it makes sense for other makers to license it: Unless they think they are going to lose copious sales, or, conversely, create new markets and/or take market share from competitors, no major manufacturer will have any interest.

I genuinely can't see Cyrus hurting any major manufacturer unless he cuts his price by about 75%. So no on that count. Now, if say Rossignol thought they could consume major portions of say Volkl or Blizzard's market share by licensing it? Maybe. It would have to be an exclusive license, which would be more expensive. Therefore less likely to happen. Not saying 0% chance.

The other path to go is just duplicate it and dare them to sue you. I've seen plenty of big companies do this to smaller companies. It would cost a minimum of $500,000 to successfully pursue a patent infringement case. More like $2 Million likely. And tens of millions (or half a billion for Samsung) is not out of the question. In the meantime your opponent would try their darndest to get your patent overturned. Which occurs in up to 25% of cases.

Patents are gratifying. And in cases like Cyrus' where you could merely buy his skis and cut them open to learn most of his secrets, necessary. But they are ridiculously expensive to defend and by no means a sure thing.

 

[skibob]

Is there another producer of non-newtonian damping materials other than 3do? Can another ski maker buy and use rate-sensitive damping material from another supplier?

Does Renoun have an exclusive contract with d3o for their material that is used in skis & snowboards? Can d3o sell rate-sensitive damping material to another ski maker?

I don't expect anyone here to have these answers. The patent does put Renoun in a good place.

The way the patent currently reads, no, Cyrus does not need an exclusive contract and no, another manufacturer of skis cannot use another non-Newtonian material in their skis. Are there "rate-sensitive damping materials" that are not non-Newtonian? I wouldn't think so, but I am not a physicist . . .

 

[skibob]

Not sure if the material would really help race skis. Believe me, it's been discussed a great deal. Not like this is brand new technology for Cyrus, or top secret. As soon as folks realized he was on to something, yes, as @Philpug says, engineers started to cut them up.

Nothing new there, in terms of learning that way. Been going on for 50 years.

If the material giving race skis a big advantage was believed to be the case, the Head comment is not off base. I'm sure that others would be using it. Maybe they have been?

Good for Cyrus to have the patent in hand. Love to root for the little guy!

So, I am not and never have been a racer. But it seems to me that something that bends relatively easily, but becomes stiffer and stiffer the deeper it is bent, could have racing applications?