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PTskier

Been goin' downhill for years....
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1--Protect the soles and wear them inside the house for at least a couple of hours to (a) let the liner filler material mold to your feet, (b) find some of the hot spots that will need to be punched out.
2--If the boots are comfy while you first wear them, take them back for a smaller size.


Is it fair to all the real ski boots if we call the Apex products "boots?" (I ski with a lady who wears Apex HP-L, and she knows how they place a limit on her skiing ability.)
 

T-Square

Terry
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Honestly, boot fitting is such an arduous and uncertain process for my feet that once I get a pair that works, I never want to change.

Unfortunately, it seems that my feet usually do want to change ... or something.

Exactly! I hate to get new boots, it’s not the fitting, it’s the fear that we, the fitter and I, won’t get it right. That’s why the search for a good fitter is so important.
 

Uncle-A

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1--Protect the soles and wear them inside the house for at least a couple of hours to (a) let the liner filler material mold to your feet, (b) find some of the hot spots that will need to be punched out.
2--If the boots are comfy while you first wear them, take them back for a smaller size.


Is it fair to all the real ski boots if we call the Apex products "boots?" (I ski with a lady who wears Apex HP-L, and she knows how they place a limit on her skiing ability.)
I think the (2) item is true for so many skiers, but they are so afraid of the boots will hurting their feet that they just buy boots that are too large. When the boots do break in they over tighten the buckles and hurt their feet anyway also they think that the boots are all packed out and go out to buy new ones and repeat the process.
 

Monique

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I think the (2) item is true for so many skiers, but they are so afraid of the boots will hurting their feet that they just buy boots that are too large. When the boots do break in they over tighten the buckles and hurt their feet anyway also they think that the boots are all packed out and go out to buy new ones and repeat the process.

The problem is, sometimes the boot hurt because they *do* have an insurmountable problem.

I've yet to figure out where the line is.
 

PTskier

Been goin' downhill for years....
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There might be 1% of skiers who get a great fit out of the box. The rest of us need to know that the boots will need to have punch outs or grinding to accommodate the various lumps & bumps on our feet, as well as possible adjustments for our particular structural alignment. That's only if we want boots that perform as good as they should. Rules of thumb are never 100%, by definition, so, my boot fit rule of thumb...if the boots are comfy in the store (or right away at home), they're too big. Or the wrong last for those feet, or some other non-correctable problem.
 

Philpug

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There might be 1% of skiers who get a great fit out of the box.
I will disagree with this, maybe there was a time this was somewhat true but with the amount of boot options there are now, there is a better chance and I think that 1% is well into the double digits, it is just a matter of finding someone who can start with the right boot. It is about matching the boot to the foot and not the other way around. Yes, many boots can be punched and ground but starting with a boot that actually matches the shape of the foot saves a ton of time and aggrivation.

I recall working with quite a few customers who were actaually complaining that while I was referred to them it seemed that I didn't do anything special and just put two different boots on them (which one wasn't even necessary, because the other one was going to be perfect) but a comparison is needed from time to time. A good bootfitter will not start by putting a square peg into a round hole and will start with the path of least resistance with a boot that will work. Are punches and grinds needed? Of course they are, and there are feed that you look at that you know will need a bunion, navicular or ankle.
 
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Monique

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Even when I was comparing a heat moldable shell to another boot, my fitter told me to go with the best out of the box fit. It happened to be the heat moldable one, so that worked out nicely.
 

Crank

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I went to a well know boot fitter in VT. He asked what kind of skiing I did and then he held my bare feet in his hands. He brought out 2 pairs of boots and both fit great out of the box. I chose the pair that fit a bit greater. It was well worth the visit to his shop and I was happy to pay full retail for a boot I know I will ski for at least a decade.
 

HDSkiing

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After 200 days, give or take over the last 2 seasons I literally just spent a couple hours with my boot fitter. I opted for the same boot brand I’ve been in (K2 spyne) since the 2015/16 season. I could have switched liners but I wanted a bit stiffer boot (going from 110 to 130) and a narrower last going from the 100to the LV at 97 and for me, at least, the Spyne just fits my foot really well.

I have fairly narrow feet but a bunion on my left foot seemed to necessitate a wider last, but I found that I missed the snugness of a LV boot, particularly around my heel. The 2018 K2 Spyne 130 has a slightly larger toe box than previous models but the real decision for me was the info that my boot fitter gave me in regards to what he could do with that specific boot to make it fit and he was right.

Out of the box there was no way I could ski in it, (not the left one anyway) but after he was done, which included heat molding, punching, grinding and custom foot beds it was like a different boot, comfortable as house slippers yet snug as a high performance boot should be. I hope I don’t have to go back after I’ve skied on it, but if I do it’s no big deal, they will take care of me.

I guess the moral of the story is with all of the different brands and models out there and what a competent boot fitter can do with them there is no reason your skiing should be impeded by poorly fitting or uncomfortable ski boots. I have no idea how many boots I’ve owned and skied in but I do know the vast majority were out of the box, (until recent years) some hurt others didn’t to which more than one race coach in my youth reminded me that “if it didn’t hurt it didn’t fit,” sage advice at the time, or so I thought...

Wearing them around the house is fine, I do that a bit too, mostly to figure out where I want the buckles adjusted as I rarely change those settings to a significant degree once I find the sweet spot which only skiing in 20 degree weather will finalize.

Like many of you I am in ski boots 5-7 days a week for up to 10 hours a pop, sometimes never even unbuckling them from dawn to dusk. Comfort is important but so is performance. I have found that if you take the time and have a good boot fitter one dos’nt need to be compromised for the other but it is a process to get there.
 

markojp

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There might be 1% of skiers who get a great fit out of the box. The rest of us need to know that the boots will need to have punch outs or grinding to accommodate the various lumps & bumps on our feet, as well as possible adjustments for our particular structural alignment. That's only if we want boots that perform as good as they should. Rules of thumb are never 100%, by definition, so, my boot fit rule of thumb...if the boots are comfy in the store (or right away at home), they're too big. Or the wrong last for those feet, or some other non-correctable problem.

There is much too much variability in foot shape/volume to generalize about something like 'comfort'= too big. A good driving glove is comfortable. A well fit boot should fit like a driving glove. A good fitter will get you there, and we haven't even mentioned the necessity for the ankle to articulate correctly yet.
 

markojp

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I will disagree with this, maybe there was a time this was somewhat true but with the amount of boot options there are now, there is a better chance and I think that 1% is well into the double digits, it is just a matter of finding someone who can start with the right boot. It is about matching the boot to the foot and not the other way around. Yes, many boots can be punched and ground but starting with a boot that actually matches the shape of the foot saves a ton of time and aggrivation.

I recall working with quite a few customers who were actaually complaining that while I was referred to them it seemed that I didn't do anything special and just put two different boots on them (which one wasn't even necessary, because the other one was going to be perfect) but a comparison is needed from time to time. A good bootfitter will not start by putting a square peg into a round hole and will start with the path of least resistance with a boot that will work. Are punches and grinds needed? Of course they are, and there are feed that you look at that you know will need a bunion, navicular or ankle.

Thank you!
 

CalG

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I would say , from my own experience, that if a boot feels right (comfortable) in the first hour after you put them on in the shop, the boot /liner can't possibly be the right fit! ;-)
When the boot feels right after 20 hours of skiing, It's a good match.

But since the subject is breaking in boots, I'll let out "what I do" ;-)

I pull the liners from the boots (usually some thermo fit variance) and then I fill the laundry sink with the hottest water that comes from the tap (pretty freakin' hot at my house).
Into the sink goes both boots and liners for a 10-15 minute soak with liberal additions of more hot water to "keep it hot".

After soaking (read: heating to 145F or what ever the steamy water temp is) I pull the liners out of the tub and shake them out to get the standing water off them. Then the boots are pulled out of the water bath and the hot liners shoved home (wear gloves!)

Then my bare feet are shoved , wedged, slid and kicked into the liner fitted boots. The boots are buckled up very snuggly with all the same top to bottom , bottom to top protocol as whenever boots are put on. Kick that heal into the pocket! Yes, the heat is uncomfortable.

Then I walk around the house until the plastic and liners cool.

The process works for me, so I could give a ratzazz if it seems excessive. The entire episode take less than an hour ;-)

Plastic softens with heat, use that fact to aid fit.
 

markojp

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...if a boot feels right (comfortable) in the first hour after you put them on in the shop, the boot /liner can't possibly be the right fit.

Plastic softens with heat, use that fact to aid fit.

The idea that boots can't possibly feel comfortable and fit well without hours and hours of boot work doesn't really resemble the reality that most of us who fit boots experience with our clients.

Boot labs are full of toys and tools that use heat. No mysteries here. I'm guessing everyone who fits boots and did a shift today put some to use.
:beercheer:
 

Monique

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I literally just spent a couple hours with my boot fitter

It's cute that you think that's a lot of time ;-)

A well fit boot should fit like a driving glove.

Nominated as a replacement for the "firm handshake" analogy. This is even better, and easier to translate.

I would say , from my own experience, that if a boot feels right (comfortable) in the first hour after you put them on in the shop, the boot /liner can't possibly be the right fit! ;-)
When the boot feels right after 20 hours of skiing, It's a good match.

The idea that boots can't possibly feel comfortable and fit well without hours and hours of boot work doesn't really resemble the reality that most of us who fit boots experience with our clients.

Yeah - I've bought some really bad-for-me boots on the theory that they should be uncomfortable, and some really bad for me boots trying to swing in the other direction (under the advice of a "boot fitter" at SureFoot - this is why you have to get a person's name, not put any stock in the store name, IMO. "Well, you've had bad luck with boots that felt too tight in the store - let's try ones that feel comfortable!" This did not work out well.).

Last time I went to the shop, my fitter encouraged me to ignore everything else (after he'd already curated which boots I should try based on measurements and stated goals) and just identify the boot that was the most comfortable out of the lot. I usually spend at least 20 minutes in each boot in the store, and a lot longer when I think I've found the winner.

It's like the old joke about the copier repair guy who comes in, looks at the copier, taps it once with a hammer, and presents a bill for $500. The office manager objects and demands an itemized bill. The repair guy presents a bill: "Tapping with hammer : $5. Knowing where to tap: $495."

I pay my fitters to identify the right subset of boots for me. The guy at SureFoot a million years ago didn't have that knowledge and experience. Chuck at A Racer's Edge does. (And by "pay," I typically just mean that I pay MSRP for the boot rather than trying to bargain shop online. The out of pocket cost of the fitting would make up the difference anyway, as I discovered after going for a half price "new old stock" deal online.)

To be fair - I also think that boots have come a looooong way since then, now accommodating a lot more variety in foot and leg shape.
 

crgildart

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I would say , from my own experience, that if a boot feels right (comfortable) in the first hour after you put them on in the shop, the boot /liner can't possibly be the right fit! ;-)
When the boot feels right after 20 hours of skiing, It's a good match.

.

The idea that boots can't possibly feel comfortable and fit well without hours and hours of boot work doesn't really resemble
the reality that most of us who fit boots experience with our clients.

Boot labs are full of toys and tools that use heat. No mysteries here. I'm guessing everyone who fits boots and did a shift today put some to use.
:beercheer:

I think what the other CG is saying is that if the boots fit perfectly with zero discomfort and zero hours of actual use they will likely pack out a little bit after 20 plus hours of skiing and no longer fit "perfectly" at that point. A good fitter will make adjustments to remove that excess volume at that point.. Or you can start with boots that are a little on the tight side and bear with them until they pack out to fit better so adding thicker footbeds or other volume reduction tweaks aren't necessary.
 

David Chaus

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The boots I just bought (Tecnica Mach1 LV 120) are the snuggest fit I have ever tried, surprisingly without painful pressure on my bony ankles. There is some extra pressure where the arch support is on my footbeds. That could be because my old customer footbeds were in a slightly wider last boot. Possibly my footbeds might need to be trimmed a bit, or get new footbeds, or heat mold the new liner, or grind the liner, or some heat-‘n-punch with the boot shell, and or a new liner. Regardles, the work will be minimal, and I am impressed with the anatomical shaping of the boot shell and liner.

And....now to wear them around the house a bit before my bootfitting appointment on Monday, followed by time on the snow next weekend if the forecast holds :crossfingers:.

Edit: OK, I will for sure need some canting as well.
 
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john petersen

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Thanks for the thoughts here, guys. I have a week long skiing event coming up in Dec and had better be ready for it!....this discussion answers some questions that were floating around in my noggin.

Ill be wearing the new boots around the house and may take them into the gym (re our basement!) and play around with some balance exercises......

Ive also gotta take them outside and see how they feel when its cold out!......


JP
 

AmyPJ

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That reads like a Harlequin romance. :eek:
:roflmao:

I have Head B5 RD "junior" race boots, because my feet are so low-volume, it's hilarious. I had Boot Doc liners foamed into them last winter, and they felt damn good.
I've gained 10 lbs. since then. (The divorce diet wore off.) Ayayay they are tight now! Or, my feet just aren't used to them. Testing them out this weekend. Wish me luck. One thing about the BD liners is they do NOT pack out. I'm going to be so mad if I have to get new boots again because my feet got 2mm fatter.
 

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