Boots boots boots....

[Nobody]

The time has come, to really put to rest my trusty Tecnica xt17...
On the other hand, I do have a pair of Dalbello Scorpion 130, which I rarely used (about ten times in three seasons)
The problem with these is that last time I used them I ended up with a severely inflamed external side of my right lower leg. So swollen that my friends though I had a bone fracture just above the calf...it scared the hell out of me.
Maybe my feet aren't Dalbello feet...
Now, I need a more up to date boot, more precise and that could help my journey (see ski school section).
I have had the opportunity to dry test in a lab a Lange 130 and a Tecnica mach1...
Both in size 27.5/315 bsl, both one size down to my current ones. Both fit very well in the shop. Lange feels more progressive, Tecnica despite being the 90 flex (In case I would ask for either the 110 model or the 130) felt stiffer or better said, more on/off...and I am told that the tecnica plastics are so, let's say "drier".
So, now...what to do? Being a Tecnica lover...but the Lange had me since the very first moment I inserted the foot in it...

 

[Nobody]

BTW last is similar, 97mm Lange, 98mm Tecnica...
Price tag...considerably higher the Lange.
And this without considering the bootfitting phase to come...

 

[Philpug]

I have had the opportunity to dry test in a lab a Lange 130 and a Tecnica mach1...
Both in size 27.5/315 bsl, both one size down to my current ones. Both fit very well in the shop. Lange feels more progressive, Tecnica despite being the 90 flex (In case I would ask for either the 110 model or the 130) felt stiffer or better said, more on/off...and I am told that the tecnica plastics are so, let's say "drier".
So, now...what to do? Being a Tecnica lover...but the Lange had me since the very first moment I inserted the foot in it...

I am currenty skiing both of these boots, a Mach 1 130 LV and a Lange RS140, which is a 130 shell but set up with a Boot Doc WC foam liner. The Tecnica has close to 100 days with the stock CAS liner which IMHO could be the best sock liner on the market today for fit and holding it's shape and not packing out. The reason I went to the BD WC is two fold, the liner that came in the 140 just didn't fit my foot and well, BD wanted a review done on their liner. The liner in the 130 is good but not on par with the Tecnica. Stance is different with both of these boots, the Lange is a bit more upright and hte Tecnica has more delta and a couple of degrees more forward lean in the cuff. I personally prefer the stance of the Tecnica so I added a heel lift in it and a spoiler behind the liner to create a similar stance to the Tecnica. Stance is personal preference so if you like a more upright stance, go with the Lange.

On snow performance is on par, no clear winner or loser here.

 

[Monique]

Um ... go to a reputable boot fitter to try some boots and don't go by internet advice? No matter how trusted the source?

 

[Yo Momma]

^^^ Ditto ............... a boot fitter will change your life and your entire perception of what type of foot you have and which boots fit your foot. W/ one glance my boot fitter knew which shell fit my particular foot, and at the time (2009) he made me wait a year till that particular shell came out....an admission that despite all the boots he had in stock, none fit my foot like the one being developed....... Now THAT is quality and attn to detail............. Now my shells fit so precise that I'm a solid size 11 street shoe in a 27.5 boot............. had another master boot fitter look at my setup and his immediate comment was ......"WOW........ who got your foot into that shell comfortably?" He recognized immediately, that I had been to another master boot fitter. These guys are the real deal and know their stuff........ trust them to make the call. After that initial outlay of $$$ you can save money, baring any changes, by simply finding the same shell and buying another pair or upgrading your liner to an aftermarket................and mostly you will know what a proper boot fit feels like when done by a pro and you will settle for nothing less as you will be intimately familiar w/ ALL the nuances of your particular feet.

Despite an amazing fit, last year I asked him if I needed to upgrade and get new boots and liners.......... he shrugged it off and said that your shell fits so tight that there is really barely enough room for the liner to pack out......... He chuckled and said keep skiing em till the shells crack........ This fall I upgraded the liners to Intuitions Low Volume, but the shell is still original since 2009! It was initially really expensive but I ended up saving a TON$$$$ over the years by going to a master boot fitter................

 

[Nobody]

^^^ Ditto ............... a boot fitter will change your life and your entire perception of what type of foot you have and which boots fit your foot. W/ one glance my boot fitter knew which shell fit my particular foot, and at the time (2009) he made me wait a year till that particular shell came out....an admission that despite all the boots he had in stock, none fit my foot like the one being developed....... Now THAT is quality and attn to detail............. Now my shells fit so precise that I'm a solid size 11 street shoe in a 27.5 boot............. had another master boot fitter look at my setup and his immediate comment was ......"WOW........ who got your foot into that shell comfortably?" He recognized immediately, that I had been to another master boot fitter. These guys are the real deal and know their stuff........ trust them to make the call. After that initial outlay of $$$ you can save money, baring any changes, by simply finding the same shell and buying another pair or upgrading your liner to an aftermarket................and mostly you will know what a proper boot fit feels like when done by a pro and you will settle for nothing less as you will be intimately familiar w/ ALL the nuances of your particular feet.

Despite an amazing fit, last year I asked him if I needed to upgrade and get new boots and liners.......... he shrugged it off and said that your shell fits so tight that there is really barely enough room for the liner to pack out......... He chuckled and said keep skiing em till the shells crack........ This fall I upgraded the liners to Intuitions Low Volume, but the shell is still original since 2009! It was initially really expensive but I ended up saving a TON$$$$ over the years by going to a master boot fitter................

Apologies for not replying sooner. I got lost in my quest to both improve my skiing technique (attending update workshops and putting "mile under the ski bases", and to find a suitable replacement boot and forgot about this thread.
@Monique and @Yo Momma, the shop I dry tested the boots is a reputable bootfitter.
I knew that in case I would have bought there, the service on that side would be of stellar level. It is the same place where I provisioned my Blizzard WRC last year.
@Philpug, thanks for the anwser, that cleared up some of the doubts I had.
In the end, I put my hands on a pair of Tecnica R 9.8 F.I. 110, the predecessor to the Mach1 LV R line, size 27.5 (bsl 315), one good size down to the XT17 and the Scorpions I was previouy using, but same size of the Tecnica TNT R the Icon Race (XT17) replaced many years ago...
Anyway to make a long story short, the fit of these is exactly same as I remember the TNT of same size, which is to say that in order to ensure some precision skiing my feet are suffering a bit, time will tell, I'm only at day three. Flex is good and progressive, just what I hope will help with the remaining steps of my travel (see ski school thread).
There is some work to do, on the bootfitting side, though. Thermoforming the liners, probably punch a bit at the toe level but that only after installing a comform'able custom insole or similar (on the TNT that was all needed to have the extra room to make my toes comfy in the boots, so comfy that I ended up using those same conform' able for 20+ years).
But I just discovered a potential problem, and well, I never noticed it with other boots.
This morning, it was a pretty cold day here today, I accidentally turned upside down the boots to install the cattracks to walk from the car to the lift and out of the boot came a "solid" stream of water...I was puzzled!
I decided to put on the boots to ski anyway and...well, the liner felt wet and cold. Not a nice feeling on a -15(centigrades) day!
This evening after skiing (and cutting my ski day short due to the cold weather), at home, I turned upside down the boots again
and again the same happened, water came out of the boot...
Now boots are in the HG bag, drying up and warming, but I am really puzzled by this, never having experienced it before...
Anyone seen this?

 

[Brian Finch]

The formula/xt17/xt24 was a unique boot & not what is currently on the market. Best to transition into a Lange or Dobermann model.

 

[Monique]

@Nobody - I was going to "like" your post, then got to the part about the water. Gross!

Maybe you need one of those duct tape blockers that so many people sport at the front of their boots?

 

[James]

Take the liners out and dry them. Use some forced warm air. Or steam the things in a hot gear bag.

 

[Monique]

<3 my snapdry

 

[ScotsSkier]

The formula/xt17/xt24 was a unique boot & not what is currently on the market. Best to transition into a Lange or Dobermann model.

Yup, the XT was good boot in its day....for the skis of the period!!!......but things have moved on a long way. Tecnica R that you have gone for is a good modern boot and the clone of the equivalent Dobie

 

[Tricia]

But I just discovered a potential problem, and well, I never noticed it with other boots.
This morning, it was a pretty cold day here today, I accidentally turned upside down the boots to install the cattracks to walk from the car to the lift and out of the boot came a "solid" stream of water...I was puzzled!
I decided to put on the boots to ski anyway and...well, the liner felt wet and cold. Not a nice feeling on a -15(centigrades) day!
This evening after skiing (and cutting my ski day short due to the cold weather), at home, I turned upside down the boots again
and again the same happened, water came out of the boot...
Now boots are in the HG bag, drying up and warming, but I am really puzzled by this, never having experienced it before...
Anyone seen this?

I'm perplexed by this. I wonder if there is an issue with that particular pair of boots to be getting that much water in them.

 

[Yo Momma]

Wet boots = major problem........... need to get that solved. In my limited experience I've seen some boots w/ toe sealing issues........ I would try some kind of Gorilla or Duct tape (Black)..... for style points use grey and if so, don't forget to duct tape your gloves to match! LOL

This is the boot drier I use as it offers both heated and no-heat modes....... I use it everyday I ski, and for wet suit booties, winter boots, gloves, hats........ dogs, cats, hamsters you name it it'll dry it! (........ just kidding!)

https://www.amazon.com/DryGuy-Wide-...423&sr=8-3&keywords=DryGuy+Boot+&+Glove+Dryer

 

[ScotsSkier]

My atomic RT STI boots (92last) gave me a similar problem. No matter how much duct tape/silicon etc I used on the toe box, the toes of my socks would be wet after 2 or 3 runs And of course wet toes become freezing toes.....Great boot but that became a deal breaker. A few race days when I used them I would change socks before my race run...

 

[Nobody]

I used duct tape on the XTs though I did not experience a wet toes/boots situation similar to this. I have electrically heated boot (and gloves, if need be) driers that used on the XTs since coming to spend the winters in a fixed location, and recently purchased an Hot Gear bag as reward for the L1 pass.
But I suspect it in not completely the boots fault, I must be doing something wrong...
Many years ago I had taken the habit (maybe even back in the TNTs days) to ski the first two runs of the day with the boots either with all four buckles set but with levers opened, or with at least the first two.
Did not experienced a wet or progressive wet feeling with the XTs (TNTs are too far back in time to remember such details).
Today I skied with the Rs that did spend the night in the HG bag set to the lowest warming switch position and well, at start time alll was well, with the progression of the day I noticed an increasingly, albeit very light, cold/wet feeling in the toes area. I kept the "buckle open" phase at an absolute minumum (one run and during lift climbs, and only of the lower two).
After skiing I noticed very light snow presence in the inside of the boot at the overlap area but also at the cuffs...
In the evening the water coming out of the boot, after a couple of hours of "acclimatization" to home condition (just out of the flat door) was considerably less than the day before, but still there. Then off to the HG bag they were.
I wll try and completely skip the "skiing unbuckled" phase of my dayly routine but
I guess that some duct tape (black, orange or light blue, for colour matching with the R 9.8 and Blizz WRCs) is coming next, teehee.
I will also head down to the shop and have a chat with the shop tech to see wether sonebody else had the same experience.
So far, but it is only day 4 of use, overall satisfaction with the boots performances is high, I hope that they will help me to get acquainted to, and improve/accelerate, the techniques refinement ratio so to enable me to pass the L2 clinic exam next summer/fall (L1 clinic coaches were stressing out that we candidates were all skiing in way too stiff boots -almost everyone was on "130" boots- for the task at hand)

 

[Nobody]

P.s. as Scotskier says, the R9.x series fron Tecnica is the twin to the Dobie fron Nordica.
Lowr shell of mine is almost identical, if not exactly, in shape to the lower shell of my neighborough Dobies.
The 9.8, FI. 110, is a more comfortable, tamed down version (wider ans softer, with canting adjustmens screws built in, not that I am going to touch those without a bootfitter help) of the 9.3 series. Now replaced by the Mach 1 R LV models (all black).
I know that 110 might sound soft, but I do not need a 130 for now. I guess that to pass the "Eurotest" I will need FIS specc'ed skis and thus a boot in 130 will be required to effectively drive those. But I have time before passing that specific bridge...I can start saving, any how... ;-)

 

[Nobody]

After three weeks hyatus due to this damn flu that is hitting us here (my son, my mom my girlfriend and finally me got it in this order, son and me are out, mom and gf not yet, after three weeks!!! It is a "light" form, but pesky and persistent...) family was well enough to let me be egoistic and take saturday to ski.
Since I had only Saturday I made the most out of it and did ski in the day and at night.
With a visit to the shop in between to discuss the water in the boots thing. According to the shop owner it is due to,condensation and the only solution is to remove the liners from the boots after each skiing day and let everything to dry.
Well, thanks to that HG bag purchase that will be solved...hopefully, because after the night session was over, I went home, took the liners out and...holy moly solids chunks of iced snow came out of the boots! That's no "condensation" at all!!!
Anyway,I guess I am back to the duct tape on the snowguard part of the boot tip. Colour matching (black)? Or orange? Or the standard metal grey? Ho hum, this doubt is killing me :-D
On another note, I took off the standard footbeds and inserted the custom moldable comform'able ones I had originally had made for my TNTs in the early "90...lo and behold, there is now enough room for my toes not to have them feel cramped...overall feeling is also mildly warmer...given these footbeds are now 25+ y.o. I wonder wether I ought to find new ones, and of which make (comform'able footbeds model I have is one for ehm, comfort, not performances)

 

[Nobody]

Next mod I have in mind is to replace the "standard"velcro strap with a "booster" model like the R 130 or the Mach 1 R 130LV sports. Is it worth the hassle and money? Or shoul I use the aftermarket standard booster straps I already have (I own two pairs, one medium -Nolo courtesy many years ago- and one strong, bought last year after I thought I had lost the one I have)?
This is a winter of experiments....both with these boots and with skis (and poles lenght)

 

[Nobody]

Haven't experimented with the boosterstraps yet (and the season has been officialy closed on may 1st, there will be the option to ski till june 4th, but I have yet to decide wether to scrape up the money for that or not). But I have discovered a couple of interesting things on the 9.8s...
0) thanks to my hot stuff heatable boot bag
No more water in the boots nor damp liners, unfortunately it is expensive in terms of electricity bill, ah well..can't have it both ways, no?
1) During the winter I have met at least three other persons still (remember, mine might be shop brand new, but the model is at least three season outdated, so not many on the hill are skiing in those) skiing in the exact boit (9.8, flex 110)...all lamented water leackage (not condensation) from out in, all attempted to solve it by use of the gray duct tape
2) Instead of trying the duct tape way, I have tightened my boots' lower buckles one notch (from 1st to 2nd, boots are still comfortable, a bit snuggier but by not much, I tend to ski with the boots on the comfy side and to tighten 'em up only if and when I cannot absolutely avoid it) = a lot less snow (water) seeping on the inside ...

Hot stuff bag and buckles tightening notwithstanding, I guess that next winter the duct tape will be put on

 

[James]

You can't just tape the toe box. You have to tape the full overlap as far up to the cuff as you can. Once I started doing that the Lange Zc plugs were much warmer because snow wouldn't get in and make everything damp. I originally started doing it for rain days. Then one day skiing I could feel the cold air getting in so I started the overlap tape. On those I usually skied the bottom buckles 1st notch or unbuckled so that was part of it.