Arapahoe Basin: Friend rescues friend hanging from backpack.

[lonewolf210]

For those questioning how long the lifts take to stop. The old ones take quite a bit from full speed. The ones we have at my resort take a good 10 feet or so to stop. On a moderately steep slope that can easily put the riders out of reach above the ground.

I ride with a pack all the time I usually unbuckle it and sling it around to my lap. What really screwed the guy was the fact that the chest clip was still done up. If only his shoulder was in he would have simply fallen out.

 

[Tricia]

Stories are similar. Did the rescuer have the knife ore did the patrol throw it up to him.
Didn't the patrollers catch him when he fell, or did he land in rocks breaking ribs.
Of course this is minor as the amazing part is he is a survivor.

According to the accounts of the guy who rescued him, the patrol threw the knife up to him.

badass mfer! Interviewer with rescuer:

http://unofficialnetworks.com/2017/...ied-down-chairlift-cable-to-save-dying-friend

Right!!!
Here is the video on Youtube from Denver 7

He wasn't actually slackening, but his balance skills definitely came in to play.

 

[Muleski]

This topic came up for me late afternoon, yesterday, over coffee with two ski buddies. One is a lawyer, and he's the outside counsel for "a few" bigger ski resorts. The other, is a reinsurance broker, who also is in the ski industry in "a pretty big way." Right in the thick of it. Provides the excess coverage for those who largely self insure. {I think I have that right!}

After that conversation, my hunch is that certainly by next season, WEARING a backpack of any type, even a thin hydration pack, will be prohibited on every lift at virtually every US ski area. Take it off, and hold it in front of you. Done. Certainly at all that carry any level of insurance coverage, which means all of them.

Words like "ticking time bomb" were in the conversation. Along with "The easy solution is a simple one."

These guys are not just "suits". One has done the Haute Route a half dozen times. The other lived in Annency France for about five years and was a French fully certified guide....before it was cool, before his "real" career. Goes back every season. I think they grasp why in some situations one would ski with a backpack. In others, the three of us can't imagine why. At least no all day on lifts.

They both think the explosion of interest and activity in "backcountry" skiing in this country is problematic, and this may be just one small factor. Like REAL problematic, as people do not get trained, etc. The American way. Buy the gear and go. We all see it. Head out through the gates.

We got off track on a real conversation of why more backpacks......bunch of factors, I guess.

Sounds like the "wearing a backpack on the lift prohibited" signage is probably already in the works....Fine with me. Seems to make sense.

I wanted to ask about "safety bars", but we ran out of time. The insurance guy did feel pretty strongly that wearing a backpack didn't improve your sitting position in a chairlift, though. Very strong opinion on that one. That might be another issue....lift manufacturers informing their customers that their lifts are not designed for backpack wearers, and urging the pack prohibition. The implication being that they warned the area, "so don't sue us" as we'll produce our warnings, and be judgement proof.

Thought it was worth a post. These guys are the types who make the rules. Lift accessed backcountry is something I sense they are not so big on. I have known both guys for about 40 years, BTW.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Also, how the hell do you make money doing slack lining?

This way: http://www.gibbon-slacklines.com/en/team/pro-athletes-international/mickey-wilson.html

Sponsorship and prize money. It appears people will pay to see people risk their lives. ;-)

 

[Doug Briggs]

This is a related incident from 2011. One of the failures on the part of the operators that resulted in the death of the boy was:

"They were accused of failing to enforce a rule banning skiers from boarding the lift while wearing backpacks, not carrying out daily checks on equipment and not ensuring a safety device which could stop the lift was properly installed."​

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-trip-Alps-backpack-straps-got-entangled.html

 

[Core2]

This way: http://www.gibbon-slacklines.com/en/team/pro-athletes-international/mickey-wilson.html

Sponsorship and prize money. It appears people will pay to see people risk their lives. ;-)

That guy is ridiculous. He could've bounced on his ass all the way down the Pali lift line. I guess with any fun hobby/sport there is always someone pushing the limits and getting paid for it if they are impressive enough.

 

[pais alto]

After that conversation, my hunch is that certainly by next season, WEARING a backpack of any type, even a thin hydration pack, will be prohibited on every lift at virtually every US ski area. Take it off, and hold it in front of you. Done. Certainly at all that carry any level of insurance coverage, which means all of them.

I don't have a problem with that.

They both think the explosion of interest and activity in "backcountry" skiing in this country is problematic, and this may be just one small factor. Like REAL problematic, as people do not get trained, etc. The American way. Buy the gear and go. We all see it. Head out through the gates.

And that.

 

[Doug Briggs]

That guy is ridiculous. He could've bounced on his ass all the way down the Pali lift line. I guess with any fun hobby/sport there is always someone pushing the limits and getting paid for it if they are impressive enough.

I'd say what he did was brave and selfless and that he took a calculated risk that his skills would be sufficient to achieve his goals. He proved himself right. Now if I'd tried that it would be ridiculous.

 

[nay]

This topic came up for me late afternoon, yesterday, over coffee with two ski buddies. One is a lawyer, and he's the outside counsel for "a few" bigger ski resorts. The other, is a reinsurance broker, who also is in the ski industry in "a pretty big way." Right in the thick of it. Provides the excess coverage for those who largely self insure. {I think I have that right!}

After that conversation, my hunch is that certainly by next season, WEARING a backpack of any type, even a thin hydration pack, will be prohibited on every lift at virtually every US ski area. Take it off, and hold it in front of you. Done. Certainly at all that carry any level of insurance coverage, which means all of them.

Words like "ticking time bomb" were in the conversation. Along with "The easy solution is a simple one."

These guys are not just "suits". One has done the Haute Route a half dozen times. The other lived in Annency France for about five years and was a French fully certified guide....before it was cool, before his "real" career. Goes back every season. I think they grasp why in some situations one would ski with a backpack. In others, the three of us can't imagine why. At least no all day on lifts.

They both think the explosion of interest and activity in "backcountry" skiing in this country is problematic, and this may be just one small factor. Like REAL problematic, as people do not get trained, etc. The American way. Buy the gear and go. We all see it. Head out through the gates.

We got off track on a real conversation of why more backpacks......bunch of factors, I guess.

Sounds like the "wearing a backpack on the lift prohibited" signage is probably already in the works....Fine with me. Seems to make sense.

I wanted to ask about "safety bars", but we ran out of time. The insurance guy did feel pretty strongly that wearing a backpack didn't improve your sitting position in a chairlift, though. Very strong opinion on that one. That might be another issue....lift manufacturers informing their customers that their lifts are not designed for backpack wearers, and urging the pack prohibition. The implication being that they warned the area, "so don't sue us" as we'll produce our warnings, and be judgement proof.

Thought it was worth a post. These guys are the types who make the rules. Lift accessed backcountry is something I sense they are not so big on. I have known both guys for about 40 years, BTW.

A backpack absolutely does not improve your seating position as it pushes you forward - by far the biggest risk issue IMO.

I used to ski with a pack because I skied with my young kids and you carry stuff for them. Nothing to do with back country or anything else. It's really not a big deal, but I agree the insurers will set some rules because lift safety is not covered by ski safety acts and there is full liability exposure.

 

[Monique]

That guy is ridiculous. He could've bounced on his ass all the way down the Pali lift line. I guess with any fun hobby/sport there is always someone pushing the limits and getting paid for it if they are impressive enough.

I wasn't sure of the spirit of this quote, but in case Doug is right ...

I'd say what he did was brave and selfless and that he took a calculated risk that his skills would be sufficient to achieve his goals. He proved himself right. Now if I'd tried that it would be ridiculous.

The fact is, he had the opportunity to save someone's life. Not just a random someone, but someone he'd met and spoken to. I'm sure that it was apparent at the time that the dangling man was in a life-threatening situation, and that it would take precious time to stage a rescue from below.

If you had skills that made you unusually suited to saving someone else's life, someone you knew who was in immediate danger, would you be able to live with yourself if you didn't try? I don't know the answer for myself, and I'm not sure I'll ever be in that sort of situation, but I think Doug has the right of it.

When I think about it, I can't really even picture standing up on my own chair, let alone shimmying up to the cable etc. I would have had to sit by in horror. This guy didn't have to do that.

 

[crgildart]

I think folks with camelback or other hydration packs will just put them on UNDER their jackets to avoid the hassle or having to remove it every trip through the corral.. That would probably remove the strap hook problem, but the water or other liquid would be warm instead of nice and cool. . Not sure that a bigger pack would fit under a jacket or would serve its utility that way though.

 

[Tricia]

This topic came up for me late afternoon, yesterday, over coffee with two ski buddies. One is a lawyer, and he's the outside counsel for "a few" bigger ski resorts. The other, is a reinsurance broker, who also is in the ski industry in "a pretty big way." Right in the thick of it. Provides the excess coverage for those who largely self insure. {I think I have that right!}

After that conversation, my hunch is that certainly by next season, WEARING a backpack of any type, even a thin hydration pack, will be prohibited on every lift at virtually every US ski area. Take it off, and hold it in front of you. Done. Certainly at all that carry any level of insurance coverage, which means all of them.

Words like "ticking time bomb" were in the conversation. Along with "The easy solution is a simple one."

These guys are not just "suits". One has done the Haute Route a half dozen times. The other lived in Annency France for about five years and was a French fully certified guide....before it was cool, before his "real" career. Goes back every season. I think they grasp why in some situations one would ski with a backpack. In others, the three of us can't imagine why. At least no all day on lifts.

They both think the explosion of interest and activity in "backcountry" skiing in this country is problematic, and this may be just one small factor. Like REAL problematic, as people do not get trained, etc. The American way. Buy the gear and go. We all see it. Head out through the gates.

We got off track on a real conversation of why more backpacks......bunch of factors, I guess.

Sounds like the "wearing a backpack on the lift prohibited" signage is probably already in the works....Fine with me. Seems to make sense.

I wanted to ask about "safety bars", but we ran out of time. The insurance guy did feel pretty strongly that wearing a backpack didn't improve your sitting position in a chairlift, though. Very strong opinion on that one. That might be another issue....lift manufacturers informing their customers that their lifts are not designed for backpack wearers, and urging the pack prohibition. The implication being that they warned the area, "so don't sue us" as we'll produce our warnings, and be judgement proof.

Thought it was worth a post. These guys are the types who make the rules. Lift accessed backcountry is something I sense they are not so big on. I have known both guys for about 40 years, BTW.

I was thinking about this a while and wonder [insert thought bubble here]
Considering the link that Doug posted, is it better for the resorts to impose rules that could be ignored by *some* employees and put the resort at risk that their agent didn't enforce the rule, or are they better off to not have a rule and ignore the fact that people are wearing backpacks which, as we've seen, impede their save transport on a chair lift?

As a side note: When I traveled from Michigan, I needed constant hydration at elevation so I wore a very low profile camelback under my ski jacket, which made me sit uncomfortably on the lift. As soon as I could shake off that camelback I was happy. I'm not sure how anyone comfortably wears a pack.

This is a related incident from 2011. One of the failures on the part of the operators that resulted in the death of the boy was:

"They were accused of failing to enforce a rule banning skiers from boarding the lift while wearing backpacks, not carrying out daily checks on equipment and not ensuring a safety device which could stop the lift was properly installed."​

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-trip-Alps-backpack-straps-got-entangled.html

 

[Tricia]

Another question -
What about places like Bridger Bowl, where they have an area (Schlasman) that is only accessible with a beacon, which presumably would mean you'd have a full pack??

 

[Monique]

Another question -
What about places like Bridger Bowl, where they have an area (Schlasman) that is only accessible with a beacon, which presumably would mean you'd have a full pack??

Silverton requires a backpack to carry probe, shovel, beacon. The lift does not have a bar at all. Everybody just gets on the lift and swings the backpack onto their lap. It's awkward, but I can't think of anyone tempted to wear it on their back when there's no bar to hold them in place.

No bar may also mean fewer potential snag areas?

 

[coskigirl]

I was thinking about this a while and wonder [insert thought bubble here]
Considering the link that Doug posted, is it better for the resorts to impose rules that could be ignored by *some* employees and put the resort at risk that their agent didn't enforce the rule, or are they better off to not have a rule and ignore the fact that people are wearing backpacks which, as we've seen, impede their save transport on a chair lift?

As a side note: When I traveled from Michigan, I needed constant hydration at elevation so I wore a very low profile camelback under my ski jacket, which made me sit uncomfortably on the lift. As soon as I could shake off that camelback I was happy. I'm not sure how anyone comfortably wears a pack.

My gut instinct based on the kinds of corporate risk management I'm involved in is that having a rule would be a better defense than not having one at all. Having one shows intent to prevent the activity regardless of whether their employee(s) enforce it. No rule would show a lack of any sort of prevention which could appear negligent, especially if the norm becomes resorts having the rule then the few that don't would appear more negligent.

 

[Dwight]

I can't remember but I though no back packs are allowed on Schlasman, but that doesn't make sense. Thought I read that when I visited last year. They have a place for you to place them.

 

[pais alto]

Again, take the pack off and hold it on your lap. Right?

 

[Tricia]

I can't remember but I though no back packs are allowed on Schlasman, but that doesn't make sense. Thought I read that when I visited last year. They have a place for you to place them.

Hmmm, in an area that is avy prone enough to require a beacon? perplexing.

 

[pais alto]

It doesn't seem likely that packs aren't allowed on the ridge at Bridger Bowl. On the website's opening page there's a picture of someone on the ridge wearing a pack:
https://bridgerbowl.com/

And on the ridge information page I couldn't find anything about no packs:
https://bridgerbowl.com/pdfs/ridge-guide-9b07757c.pdf

 

[Dwight]

Hmmm, in an area that is avy prone enough to require a beacon? perplexing.

I can't find now, but it might of been on the sign for the backpack rack. Kid hiked up because lift was closed. I'm probably wrong, since they do want you to have probe, shovel and beacon.