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International (Europe/Japan/Southern Hemisphere) April 2018 - France/Switzerland

bremmick

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So I bit on some cheap airfare a couple weeks back to fly out of SLC to Paris and then flying out of Naples, Italy....fourteen days later.

Looking to get some good skiing in while there for the first half of that trip. So far, I've go some lodging figured out in Zermatt for three nights. Trying to narrow down something prior for a few nights.

So far the plan goes like this...

Paris - 2 Nights
Unknown Ski Area - 3 Nights
Zermatt - 3 Nights
Rome - 2 Nights
Amalfi Coast - 3 nights

Being this is mid-April....I know elevation will be my friend, however, I also want some experience along with it.

Reading about Val Thorens and Tignes....I see so much smack about barren wasteland, concrete sprawl, unappealing. Is this where I want to go? Or is an Andermatt, Engelberg, Serre Chev, or Chamonix a better option.

I've never been to Europe or skeid there prior, but looking for good skiing along side a memorable experience.

Thanks!
 

dustyfog

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So I bit on some cheap airfare a couple weeks back to fly out of SLC to Paris and then flying out of Naples, Italy....fourteen days later.

Looking to get some good skiing in while there for the first half of that trip. So far, I've go some lodging figured out in Zermatt for three nights. Trying to narrow down something prior for a few nights.

So far the plan goes like this...

Paris - 2 Nights
Unknown Ski Area - 3 Nights
Zermatt - 3 Nights
Rome - 2 Nights
Amalfi Coast - 3 nights

Being this is mid-April....I know elevation will be my friend, however, I also want some experience along with it.

Reading about Val Thorens and Tignes....I see so much smack about barren wasteland, concrete sprawl, unappealing. Is this where I want to go? Or is an Andermatt, Engelberg, Serre Chev, or Chamonix a better option.

I've never been to Europe or skeid there prior, but looking for good skiing along side a memorable experience.

Thanks!

It is sad that you have an impression about as far from the facts as you can imagine. While Internet and Press rankings vary depending on what you want but this piece does list some fantastic places, and sadly splits basically the same area in many cases in two.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ski/resort-guides/the-top-20-ski-resorts-voted-by-readers/

And for what it's worth, having skied a few of them, there is no place as yet that can match Tignes-Val d'Isere. And you are in Paris so French Alps sort of close though Western Italy not far either. If going to Italy, the Dolomites have pretty good conditions right now, never been, but everyti
 

dustyfog

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<Truncated ?? so here is the rest>
everything I have seen, place is nature's gift to the senses.

Zermatt has very long runs, and the Matterhorn, and Cervinia where the food is a lot better! But in this person's admittedly humble view, no contest, L'Espace Killy is something else, an experience to savor. All of them by the way are having a snow year which is sort of more than they can handle sometimes! You are headed to Zermatt it looks like, should have a good time regardless. Chamonix is all about off-piste skiing, and conditions are good most certainly, it is a legend in its own right as is L'Espace Killy.
Abundance of options and 3 days at any of these places at this time should be good. Throw a dart, you can't miss.
 

Jacob

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So I bit on some cheap airfare a couple weeks back to fly out of SLC to Paris and then flying out of Naples, Italy....fourteen days later.

Looking to get some good skiing in while there for the first half of that trip. So far, I've go some lodging figured out in Zermatt for three nights. Trying to narrow down something prior for a few nights.

So far the plan goes like this...

Paris - 2 Nights
Unknown Ski Area - 3 Nights
Zermatt - 3 Nights
Rome - 2 Nights
Amalfi Coast - 3 nights

Being this is mid-April....I know elevation will be my friend, however, I also want some experience along with it.

Reading about Val Thorens and Tignes....I see so much smack about barren wasteland, concrete sprawl, unappealing. Is this where I want to go? Or is an Andermatt, Engelberg, Serre Chev, or Chamonix a better option.

I've never been to Europe or skeid there prior, but looking for good skiing along side a memorable experience.

Thanks!

First and foremost I have to say that splitting your skiing between two completely different areas is a waste of time, because you're going to waste a significant portion of a day traveling from one to the other, and that's a day that you could be skiing. These places make Whistler-BC look small, so you might as well just pick one and stay there for six or seven nights straight before going on to Rome.

Here's the piste map for Zermatt and Cervinia https://www.piste-maps.co.uk/Piste-Maps/Switzerland/Zermatt-Matterhorn-Piste-Map-2018.pdf.

Here's the piste map for Val d'Isere and Tignes https://www.piste-maps.co.uk/Piste-Maps/France/EspaceKilly-ValdIsere-PisteMap-2016.pdf

You have to take into account the amount of vertical to get an appreciation of the size of the areas. So, remember to multiply those numbers by 3 to get feet, and then remember that multiplying by 3 is an underestimation.

Edit: imagine a European going to the US for a week of skiing, and their plan is to spend 3 nights in Summit Co, then spend most of a day driving to UT, and finish up with 3 nights in SLC/PC. They'd be better off just spending the whole week in either Summit Co or SLC, because there's plenty of skiing in both places to keep someone entertained for a week, and they'd get an extra day of skiing.
 
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fatbob

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Val Thorens is usually great in April I try to go to this every year and it is a cast iron guaranteed good time for all attendees of any ability

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=133576

but as you're committed to Zermatt you might consider elsewhere without a significant transfer between like Verbier, Crans Montana, Grimentz. Chamonix is even sort of doable if you take the train or drive over to Martigny.
 
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bremmick

bremmick

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Thanks for the all the insight and commentary thus far. This is definitely a work in progress and I appreciate all the first hand knowledge and feedback.

I'm definitely not locked in at Zermatt currently. The lodging I booked is fully refundable in case a different itinerary presents it self. Zermatt was just an immediate idea for the list being the charming town I've heard it is, the Matterhorn and access to Cervinia.

Looked through the list from Telegraph and there are a ton of great options. I've looked at adding Austria on the front as well....such as St. Anton or Lech.

My mindset is to hit up two different regions for the experience of two completely different areas. This will help in the future when the trip is even more about skiing and less about the explroation.
 

Jacob

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You might find that the different areas in the Alps aren't as different as you think.

For example, my brother and I were in Sestriere a couple of weeks ago. He lives in the DC area, but he's skied in Val d'Isere, St. Anton, Verbier, Andermatt, Villars/Gryon, and Gressoney in addition to our last trip. An interesting thing he mentioned the other day was that, wherever we ski in the Alps, the towns and the mountains themselves are all quite similar. Other than in the Dolomites, I have to say I agree.

If you plan on doing future trips, then that just seems like even more reason to pick one area for this trip and explore it to its limits. Then, you can pick a different area for your next trip and explore that one to its limits.

The current plan is like watching the first hour of two different epic movies with the idea that you will go back and watch one or maybe both in their entirety sometime in the future. You might as well just watch one entire film now and then watch the entire second film the next time.
 

dustyfog

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In another thread, Val d'Isere-Tignes is discussed, link :
https://www.pugski.com/threads/european-ski-conditions.3448/page-5#post-212696

Lech-Zurs-St Anton, i.e. the Arlberg is a little far from Paris, i.e. fly to Zurich basically. But great place to ski also. If you are a patient sort, a 6 year old is happy to take you for a tour of Lech-Zurs, the film was made by a great skier, skiing switch pretty much almost all the time. Now that was skiing...(there is a beginner in the footage..excuse that hapless being trying to stay upright!)
 

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bremmick

bremmick

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You might find that the different areas in the Alps aren't as different as you think.

For example, my brother and I were in Sestriere a couple of weeks ago. He lives in the DC area, but he's skied in Val d'Isere, St. Anton, Verbier, Andermatt, Villars/Gryon, and Gressoney in addition to our last trip. An interesting thing he mentioned the other day was that, wherever we ski in the Alps, the towns and the mountains themselves are all quite similar. Other than in the Dolomites, I have to say I agree.

If you plan on doing future trips, then that just seems like even more reason to pick one area for this trip and explore it to its limits. Then, you can pick a different area for your next trip and explore that one to its limits.

The current plan is like watching the first hour of two different epic movies with the idea that you will go back and watch one or maybe both in their entirety sometime in the future. You might as well just watch one entire film now and then watch the entire second film the next time.

Between the experience of the two of you.....what areas have been most memorable/unforgettable?
 
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bremmick

bremmick

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In another thread, Val d'Isere-Tignes is discussed, link :
https://www.pugski.com/threads/european-ski-conditions.3448/page-5#post-212696

Lech-Zurs-St Anton, i.e. the Arlberg is a little far from Paris, i.e. fly to Zurich basically. But great place to ski also. If you are a patient sort, a 6 year old is happy to take you for a tour of Lech-Zurs, the film was made by a great skier, skiing switch pretty much almost all the time. Now that was skiing...(there is a beginner in the footage..excuse that hapless being trying to stay upright!)

I'll check it out....I was trying to avoid Austria this trip, however a quick flight to Zurich and a train ride appears to be about the same as a train ride form Paris to Zermatt area.
 

fatbob

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First and foremost I have to say that splitting your skiing between two completely different areas is a waste of time, because you're going to waste a significant portion of a day traveling from one to the other, and that's a day that you could be skiing. These places make Whistler-BC look small, so you might as well just pick one and stay there for six or seven nights straight before going on to Rome.


Edit: imagine a European going to the US for a week of skiing, and their plan is to spend 3 nights in Summit Co, then spend most of a day driving to UT, and finish up with 3 nights in SLC/PC. They'd be better off just spending the whole week in either Summit Co or SLC, because there's plenty of skiing in both places to keep someone entertained for a week, and they'd get an extra day of skiing.

Spot on - seems almost a meme for Euro first timers to factor in excessive travel in an effort to tick moar stuff (says he who has just posted a thread which posits driving Bay area to Breck and back potentially - but then that is about best conditions really )
 

Jacob

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Between the experience of the two of you.....what areas have been most memorable/unforgettable?

To start with, I would trim down your current plans to do fewer locations for longer periods, especially if you're planning on doing future trips to Europe. If I were in your shoes, I'd do 4 nights in Paris, then take the train down to Bourg-St. Maurice in order to spend a week in either Val d'Isere. After that, you could pop down to the Cote d'Azur for a couple of days and start the journey back home from Nice airport.

If you're flights are already booked for Rome, then I would do either Val d'Isere or Zermatt for a week for the skiing part of the trip. Both will have good late-season skiing, and both are nice towns to hang out in. Val d'Isere has cheaper lift tickets (around $50-55 per day) and is a little easier to get from accommodation to the lifts.

If you're flying to Rome, then you can get from both resorts to Geneva in a similar amount of time. But if you're looking to take a train journey, then it'll be easier from Zermatt.

The main reason I wouldn't recommend Val Thorens or Tignes as a base for a first timer to Europe is because both are completely above tree line. If you're not particularly experienced with skiing above tree line in low visibility, then it can be quite daunting. Both Val d'Isere and Zermatt have some terrain below tree line where you can take refuge if it's snowing.
 

Jacob

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Spot on - seems almost a meme for Euro first timers to factor in excessive travel in an effort to tick moar stuff (says he who has just posted a thread which posits driving Bay area to Breck and back potentially - but then that is about best conditions really )

I think it's down to a combination of things. For those who think that traveling to Europe is more difficult than it really is, they might think their first trip will be a once-in-a-lifetime thing. And in that case, it makes you want to see as many places as you possibly can.

There are also those who don't truly appreciate just how large the ski areas are in the Alps, or maybe they don't know that they are made up of multiple resorts that are interconnected (like thinking that Val d'Isere and Tignes are completely separate ski areas). In that case, they think they'll be able to ski the entire area in a couple of days, so they should visit multiple areas if they're going to be skiing several days.

Some are just completely focused on checking things off from their bucket list, so they're more interested in being physically located in particular places than they are in getting the most out of skiing those places.

Regardless of the reasons, people imagine that their trip will be like Nationatl Lampoon's European Vacation, but the chances are, it'll end up feeling more like Planes, Trains, and Automobiles.
 

at_nyc

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There are also those who don't truly appreciate just how large the ski areas are in the Alps
And how big Europe is.

Into Paris out on Naples, with skiing in between. So 2 days will be spent going to the mountain and back down to flatland. It’ll probably involve another flight to the mountain region plus ground transport from the airport to the actual skiing area.

My first thought is focus on area that are easily accessible from a nearby airport. Zermatt is not ideal. It’s hard to get to. That said, I struggle to come up with a better alternative. Others may have better idea.

Alternatively, take the long way to the mountain and enjoy seeing the view along the way. The French Alps is the obvious choice.
 

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