Anyone messed with car's built-in USB?

[Monique]

After griping about the slow USB charge in my new car, I found this:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/why-your-usb-car-charger-hardly-works-at-all/

I wouldn't care - I have a fantastic Anker "lighter" charger that does fast charging - except that I have to use the built-in USB in order to display Android Auto on the car's screen. Which is super convenient.

Wondering if anyone with a newer car has contemplated "messing" with the wiring to "fix" this issue, and how bad an idea it might be?

Also wondering if anyone has used something like this to get charge from one port while running data on the other:

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-3-Feet-Cable-External-Drive/dp/B0047AALS0

 

[scott43]

I'm not sure it's simply a wiring issue. Newer cars have buses and it may be the current is regulated by the computer for the entertainment unit. So it may not be wiring, it might be a ROM flash..

 

[Dave Marshak]

The Y cable is your best bet, unless you are like a genius Russian hacker or something.

dm

 

[Monique]

The Y cable is your best bet, unless you are like a genius Russian hacker or something.

dm

I'm a pretty good software engineer, but my ability to damage hardware while installing things is legendary. So maybe the Y cable.

I'm not sure it's simply a wiring issue. Newer cars have buses and it may be the current is regulated by the computer for the entertainment unit. So it may not be wiring, it might be a ROM flash..

Hrmph!

 

[eok]

After griping about the slow USB charge in my new car, I found this:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/why-your-usb-car-charger-hardly-works-at-all/

I wouldn't care - I have a fantastic Anker "lighter" charger that does fast charging - except that I have to use the built-in USB in order to display Android Auto on the car's screen. Which is super convenient.

Wondering if anyone with a newer car has contemplated "messing" with the wiring to "fix" this issue, and how bad an idea it might be?

Also wondering if anyone has used something like this to get charge from one port while running data on the other:

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-3-Feet-Cable-External-Drive/dp/B0047AALS0

I actually use a Y cable, like the one you listed, for hooking up an external hard drive to my laptop. Works great - and eliminates the need for me to use a separate external power supply. I'd think the Y cable would work for what you are describing.

 

[Monique]

I actually use a Y cable, like the one you listed, for hooking up an external hard drive to my laptop. Works great - and eliminates the need for me to use a separate external power supply. I'd think the Y cable would work for what you are describing.

Yeah, I've used one for hard drives (loooong time ago), but I don't know how that compares to the phone thing in the car. I ordered the Y cable, so I'll find out Friday!

 

[Jersey Skier]

After griping about the slow USB charge in my new car, I found this:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/why-your-usb-car-charger-hardly-works-at-all/

Well now I know why my wife's new BMW drained my phone as I used Waze for 5 hours last week.

 

[Monique]

Well now I know why my wife's new BMW drained my phone as I used Waze for 5 hours last week.

Absolutely.

I love my "cigarette lighter" adapter - it's expensive, but SO fast. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01K9MQ8WW/

I'll update after I use the combo of the built-in data port and the adapter with a Y cable.

 

[scott43]

https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/5709

 

[Monique]

https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/5709

Very interesting! At the least I can appreciate that there's *some* complexity here and that it's not just laziness or cheapness. (Maybe a little of the latter)

 

[scott43]

Yeah half that article is over my head..but I suppose there is some logic there. It's smart enough to sense an iPhone and up the charge rate so I suspect it's controlled by the entertainment computer. I find my iPod charges slowly while playing music and my phone charges hardly at all even when not doing anything. Frustrating I suppose..it would be nice if they built in a little more intelligence to ask the device what to charge at, have it handshake and say 2mA and then provide the appropriate current. I suppose that's a different standard to implement though.. I don't know if the USB protocol has that ability currently although Apple's is apparently ubiquitous enough to be implemented by at least one manufacturer... Android is a bunch of different flavours so perhaps that is a different nut to crack.

 

[Monique]

Yeah half that article is over my head..but I suppose there is some logic there. It's smart enough to sense an iPhone and up the charge rate so I suspect it's controlled by the entertainment computer. I find my iPod charges slowly while playing music and my phone charges hardly at all even when not doing anything. Frustrating I suppose..it would be nice if they built in a little more intelligence to ask the device what to charge at, have it handshake and say 2mA and then provide the appropriate current. I suppose that's a different standard to implement though.. I don't know if the USB protocol has that ability currently although Apple's is apparently ubiquitous enough to be implemented by at least one manufacturer... Android is a bunch of different flavours so perhaps that is a different nut to crack.

It's ridiculous that they spec "generic" USB at half the speed of the iPhone just because Apple defined an overriding standard. OTOH, as a rule, I think it's best for car manufacturers to follow the spec on absolutely everything, rather than making subjective decisions.

 

[scott43]

It's ridiculous that they spec "generic" USB at half the speed of the iPhone just because Apple defined an overriding standard. OTOH, as a rule, I think it's best for car manufacturers to follow the spec on absolutely everything, rather than making subjective decisions.

Lowest Common Denominator rule I suppose..if you can't guarantee it will work, do the minimum you can so nothing blows up. I suppose Apple was able to provide sufficient guarantees that 1mA wouldn't blow any Apple product up so they could do that. Apple is somewhat militaristic about their dev system. Android is a free for all so there may be poorly executed Android implementations that they can't guarantee will play nice in the sand box. Militarism has its ups and downs I suppose..

 

[Dave Marshak]

It's ridiculous that they spec "generic" USB at half the speed of the iPhone just because Apple defined an overriding standard. OTOH, as a rule, I think it's best for car manufacturers to follow the spec on absolutely everything, rather than making subjective decisions.

I think they did follow the USB spec and the Apple spec. If they were going to allow more than 500ma that would violate the spec and potentially damage some device somewhere. The other choice to add software to communicate with more devices, but apparently there aren't enough of those devices that they thought they had to do that. Sucks for us.

FWIW I rent a lot of cars and every one of them has a useless "infotainment" system that is dangerously distracting. I took a Mazda my last trip only because I know how the radio works, but it's still awful.

dm

 

[Monique]

I think they did follow the USB spec and the Apple spec. If they were going to allow more than 500ma that would violate the spec and potentially damage some device somewhere. The other choice to add software to communicate with more devices, but apparently there aren't enough of those devices that they thought they had to do that. Sucks for us.

FWIW I rent a lot of cars and every one of them has a useless "infotainment" system that is dangerously distracting. I took a Mazda my last trip only because I know how the radio works, but it's still awful.

dm

I think the point is that any modern phone charges much faster - the document Scott listed above discusses this - and that there are actually updated specs, which the car manufacturers don't use. I suppose this means that 10 year old phones can charge safely, though.

As for dangerously distracting - dangerously distracting is when I'm poking around in my phone, which is tethered to a USB cable and aux cable that like to wrap around the shifter, to navigate to the next podcast I want to hear, or switch from podcast to audio book to music. Dangerously distracting is fishing that same phone from the floor by gently pulling on the cable so that I can see who just texted me. Dangerously distracting is when I have to make a sudden stop, and the Garmin I have attached to a bean bag stand on the dash slides down into my lap or the passenger foot well.

So, for me, since I'm going to use such electronics anyway, I'd rather have a center console that makes it safer. It responds to voice commands, too. With Android Auto up and running, it also provides a simplified UI for the phone so that I can easily use Google Maps, switch audio apps, or have it dictate the text message I just received.

I'd also point out that there's a world of difference between navigating these functions for the first time in a rental vs. using them in your own car every day. Of COURSE it's distracting trying to learn a new interface while driving to a hotel late at night.

My bigger problem right now seems to be the paddle shifters. I've mistakenly hit them while trying to turn on the heated steering wheel (yum) and switching the display in the center of the driver's console.

 

[Dave Marshak]

As for dangerously distracting - dangerously distracting is when I'm poking around in my phone, which is tethered to a USB cable and aux cable that like to wrap around the shifter, to navigate to the next podcast I want to hear, or switch from podcast to audio book to music. Dangerously distracting is fishing that same phone from the floor by gently pulling on the cable so that I can see who just texted me. Dangerously distracting is when I have to make a sudden stop, and the Garmin I have attached to a bean bag stand on the dash slides down into my lap or the passenger foot well.

So, for me, since I'm going to use such electronics anyway, I'd rather have a center console that makes it safer. It responds to voice commands, too. With Android Auto up and running, it also provides a simplified UI for the phone so that I can easily use Google Maps, switch audio apps, or have it dictate the text message I just received.

I'd also point out that there's a world of difference between navigating these functions for the first time in a rental vs. using them in your own car every day. Of COURSE it's distracting trying to learn a new interface while driving to a hotel late at night.

You never really get past the worst of the distraction with a lot of those systems, no matter how familiar you are with them. You're always scrolling through menus and taking your sunglasses off to squint at little ambiguous icons. And making phone calls easier doesn't reduce the intrinsic distraction of the call, it just makes it more likely that you will spend more time on the phone.

I talk to a lot of traffic safety researchers, and they all agree that distraction is as dangerous as drunk driving at the legal limit and that the distraction is not just phones, it's built into your dashboard now.

dm

 

[Dave Marshak]

My bigger problem right now seems to be the paddle shifters. I've mistakenly hit them while trying to turn on the heated steering wheel (yum) and switching the display in the center of the driver's console.

WTF!?! Paddle shifters? Unless you are driving an F1 car, all you need is 3 pedals and a lever.

dm

 

[Tom K.]

You never really get past the worst of the distraction with a lot of those systems, no matter how familiar you are with them. You're always scrolling through menus and taking your sunglasses off to squint at little ambiguous icons. And making phone calls easier doesn't reduce the intrinsic distraction of the call, it just makes it more likely that you will spend more time on the phone.

I talk to a lot of traffic safety researchers, and they all agree that distraction is as dangerous as drunk driving at the legal limit and that the distraction is not just phones, it's built into your dashboard now.

dm

Just quoting this for truth, because I could only "like" it once!

 

[Snowfan]

Wireless charging will free up the usb. https://www.ebay.com/itm/360-Degree-Rotation-QI-Standard-Phone-Car-Magnetic-Wireless-Charger-For-Iphone-8/142579366180?_trkparms=aid=555019&algo=PL.BANDIT&ao=1&asc=41375&meid=66393f0b2e2b4c68b313b1feff16cbce&pid=100705&rk=1&rkt=1&&_trksid=p2045573.c100705.m4780

Looks like many types and sizes available that should fit in cubby below headunit.

 

[Monique]

Wireless charging will free up the usb. https://www.ebay.com/itm/360-Degree-Rotation-QI-Standard-Phone-Car-Magnetic-Wireless-Charger-For-Iphone-8/142579366180?_trkparms=aid=555019&algo=PL.BANDIT&ao=1&asc=41375&meid=66393f0b2e2b4c68b313b1feff16cbce&pid=100705&rk=1&rkt=1&&_trksid=p2045573.c100705.m4780

Looks like many types and sizes available that should fit in cubby below headunit.

I'm under the impression wireless is even slower than this wired. But in any case, slow charging per se isn't the issue - getting slow charging on the USB I *have* to use in order to use Android Auto is the issue.