All things ankles... :)

[markojp]

^^^^ exactly!!! ^^^^

 

[4ster]

"balance on your feet as opposed to bracing against your equipment" - so more likely she means "not leaning on the back of the boots and/or not hang off the shins"...

Yes, I think this is the point she is trying to make ^. & you are correct @razie that they are more likely leaning on the backs of the boots than hanging in the fronts.

I think she is addressing the majority of skiers in her simple, quick video tip. Too many skiers rely on the stiffness & height of stiff plastic ski boots to maintain balance. In my utopian ski school everyone would spend a few days on classic cross country gear & leather figure skates before they ever encased their feet in modern alpine boots.

Neutral cuff/collar & natural balancing along the soles of our feet is more the ideal outcome we should be trying to attain when it comes to stance & boot balancing.

During the last 10 years I have switched from a stiff 150 flex plug boot with a tight race fit, to an "off the shelf" 130 flex boot that are rarely buckled past the first notch & even that is closed with the pressure of my pinky finger. Yes, I sacrifice some precision & grip on hard, race type snow but for everything else they are much more forgiving & easier on my body parts.
Modern shaped skis require only a short spectrum of fore/aft leverage which Armstrong points out in her video. Leverage is accomplished simply by pressing through the length of the foots arch. More important is that the shaft & sole of the boot is stiff laterally for precise tipping & edging.
My fear as boots move to softer, more walkable soles that much of that precision will be sacrificed.

Not sure what you mean. I see lots of intermediate level skiers with a stiff, downhill leg, leveraged against the front of their boot, foot behind their hip and most of their weight on the uphill ski. This is usually a fear issue, too steep terrain issue or lack of understanding issue, not an equipment issue.

& this ^ describes the majority of recreational skiers to some degree except I would say that they are more often leveraged against the back of their boot.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

This is where video really helped me. I had an instructor telling me to flex my ankle more. In my brain, I WAS flexing my ankle. Then I saw the video and I really wasn't. For me that was an eye opener and changed everything. Hmmm. I probably need a video lesson again!

 

[crgildart]

Yes, I think this is the point she is trying to make ^. & you are correct @razie that they are more likely leaning on the backs of the boots than hanging in the fronts.

I think she is addressing the majority of skiers in her simple, quick video tip. Too many skiers rely on the stiffness & height of stiff plastic ski boots to maintain balance. In my utopian ski school everyone would spend a few days on classic cross country gear & leather figure skates before they ever encased their feet in modern alpine boots.

How do you feel about having folks ski for an hour here and there with their top buckles open?

 

[markojp]

I've had classes, individuals, and people I've trained ski with their power strap fastened, but everything else unbuckled. Some schools won't allow this, but It hasn't been an issue. I'm also very careful ro be sure that their boots are in the right ballpark fit wise before doing this with anyone. Like anything else, it can be useful if used appropriately.

 

[4ster]

How do you feel about having folks ski for an hour here and there with their top buckles open?

I've had classes, individuals, and people I've trained ski with their power strap fastened, but everything else unbuckled. Some schools won't allow this, but It hasn't been an issue. I'm also very careful ro be sure that their boots are in the right ballpark fit wise before doing this with anyone. Like anything else, it can be useful if used appropriately.

Absolutely!
But as @markojp says there is a liability issue involved so it's in the suggestion category with the usual verbal disclaimers.
When appropriate I may spend my first few days of the season with only the power strap lightly fastened at least on the easier groomed terrain. I have a coach friend who does it his whole first week, on all terrain at all speeds but he is much more talented than I.
I met Andreas Shifferer (former Austrian WC star) just prior to the 2002 Olympics & he had a drill where he would remove the heel piece from his bindings & train with his boot just snugged under his toe piece. I strongly recommend against trying this on any public slope!

My own disclaimer: I am no boot expert but my feet have been to hell & back.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Since you brought boot stiffness into the conversation.

Beginner boots are soft so that as they learn making big movements (lack of correct muscle control) they are not over transmitted into their ski overly punishing them.

At the other end of the spectrum Race boots are stiff. As these skiers apply input it is very controlled and accurate. Though the force and amount can far exceed that of the beginner. The difference is they expect a response from the ski to match the input (not to mention the ski is built to take it and provide the response).

In the middle ground, intermediates. These IMHO are the toughest to fit correctly. They need boots that transmit input, but still give a little so as not to over transmit. Of all the skiers are the ones that are either in too soft or way too stiff boots. A little stiffer than required is good, but too much no. This group needs to most support in getting a good equipment match boots and skis to progress from this level.

So the concept of ankle movement is the same, just the control and finesse are different.

 

[Wilhelmson]

I do not think there is enough emphasis on ankle movements in recreational ski lessons.

My kid was already a good parallel skier last year so the instructor focused on feet and ankle movements and edging. It seemed to really help him take control on moguls and make more confident turns on steep terrain.

 

[fullStack]

In the middle ground, intermediates. These IMHO are the toughest to fit correctly. They need boots that transmit input, but still give a little so as not to over transmit. Of all the skiers are the ones that are either in too soft or way too stiff boots. A little stiffer than required is good, but too much no. This group needs to most support in getting a good equipment match boots and skis to progress from this level.

This is an excellent point, and perhaps one reason why the "intermediate plateau" lasts so long for most skiers.

 

[markojp]

Imho, most 'intermediate plateau' is simply not having enough time on snow (even with coaching) to solidify effective movements. Sure, boot issues exacerbate things, but it's tough to ski 8-10 days a season and improve beyond a certain point.

 

[fullStack]

Imho, most intermediate plateau is simply not having enough time on snow (even with coaching) to solidify effective movements. Sure, boot issues exacerbate things, but it's tough to ski 8-10 days a season and improve beyond a certain point.

I did say "one reason". Though you're right, time on snow is most likely #1.

Way back when I worked in a shop, fitting intermediates was tough (for me) because they were good enough to actually require a proper fit, but usually not proficient at providing meaningful feedback with how their boots were fitting.
I'm guessing instructors have similar issues when trying to communicate how to actually ski...one reason I'm glad my client list is very exclusive.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Imho, most 'intermediate plateau' is simply not having enough time on snow (even with coaching) to solidify effective movements. Sure, boot issues exacerbate things, but it's tough to ski 8-10 days a season and improve beyond a certain point.

How well would a concert pianist perform who only sat down to the keyboard 8-10 times a year?

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Back in the 1970s, we used to call the focus on flexing that joint anklelation. I relate it to being aware of pressures along the bottoms of the feet.

 

[JESinstr]

So if dorsiflexion is closing of the angle between the foot and shin by a raising the foot, what is it called when we close the angle by pressing the shin forward, down against the foot?. Is is all anklelation?
Maybe more importantly, is the method of closure accomplished differently depending on the predominant force at play ie. gravity vs centripetal?

Hmmm.

 

[razie]

So if dorsiflexion is closing of the angle between the foot and shin by a raising the foot, what is it called when we close the angle by pressing the shin forward, down against the foot?. Is is all anklelation?
Maybe more importantly, is the method of closure accomplished differently depending on the predominant force at play ie. gravity vs centripetal?

Hmmm.

The proper answer to that question I think is "closed chain vs open chain".... But skiing situations are very dynamic... why choose... Or indeed, differenciate and complicated it?

Here's something to try instead: pull your heels back!

Hein?

 

[Brian Finch]

Couple thoughts:

Watch Hoji or @Eric Lipton or Reilly McGlashan - this is 'new standard' ankle skiing.

The new SL WC specialists ski the same; no more load em & park/ride or mini GS- it's happening at the ankles.

Most people don't have adequate ankle motion. Do your mobility work & try a zero drop shoe.

START WORKING ON THIS YESTERDAY

 

[JESinstr]

The proper answer to that question I think is "closed chain vs open chain".... But skiing situations are very dynamic... why choose... Or indeed, differenciate and complicated it?

Here's something to try instead: pull your heels back!

Hein?

I agree Raz and good advice.
Where I was going ( and I was purposely vague) is to the beginner lesson. When I read interesting threads, I try to drive what is said down to how we teach to beginners. In Mikes M's New Zealand thread JF was talking about how he focuses on putting the ski on edge and flattening the arch and I thought this is a good word picture for beginners in a wedge. There was also talk on lifting the inside which is a great way to position wedgers to the outside vs leaning. Anyway In this thread, we are talking about ankle flexing and I was looking for a good way to describe the term anklelation that Kneale contributed. Maybe "pull your heels back "will be a successful approach. thanks!

 

[oldschoolskier]

@markojp @Kneale Brownson two I would rarely disagree with, but in the instance I will risk it.

Low Intermediates progressing high level intermediates or low level advanced skiers can get stuck because equipment limits progress, more so with limited time on the slopes. A big part of this is the lack of commitment of $'s on equipment, justified with the little slope time.

Progressing further well into the advanced or expert level generally is a slope time thing. I agree here, this is the concert pianist comparison.

Equipment isn't the solution to progress, but it is an important part of the equation at certain stages.

Those that are well into the top levels can ski with anything regardless of the level or condition, it is only a question of whether or not it is enjoyable.

As to the original thread, ankle flex is important, how it is translated to the snow is initiated by the skill level and transmitted by the right (level) equipment.

 

[markojp]

Actually I agree with you too, old school. Skiing is rarely black or white. Boots do matter, particularly as performance thresholds get higher. I'm the last person who wants to sell something that's unneeded to someone, but I've had to be the bearer of bad gear news more than once. In a shop, it's usually "your boot is two shell sizes too big." With people who are working on their certs, it's usually a boot that can't be flexed properly even with work, too large (again), or in one case, a large calf down low in a high volume boot that's pushing them too far forward to ever ski easily in balance. This guy was a great compensator, and when he gets a new boot, it will take work and some fitting gymnastics, but it's going to blow him away.

 

[Jamt]

Most people don't have adequate ankle motion. Do your mobility work & try a zero drop shoe.

START WORKING ON THIS YESTERDAY

Totally agree, this is so important. Many boot issues that are solved with posted insoles, canting, shimming etc would be much better solved with better foot movement patterns and mechanics. Most people seem to think it is not worth the effort though.

I think that exercising in minimalistic footwear is an excellent way to build the foot strength you need for skiing.