14U kids alpine racing -- Need help!

[hlc]

So my kids have been skiing for about 5 years but just a few times a year. They've always been into a variety of different activities and we live quite far from a mountain so...
Anyway, this year my 12 y/o asked if he could join a ski team for next season (would be U14). Obviously it would be a huge family commitment for many reasons, but mainly the distance involved means separating the family for the winter weekends.
He is a good skier - but having never seen a u14 race before, I have no idea where he would stack up. He's never tried gates and he's never skied on racing skis. But he's technically decent (lots of lessons) and not afraid of speed - but again what I think as fast, is probably slow compared to other boys his age.

SO... is it worth the commitment? Obviously you can't really answer that question but I am looking for some input from people who have been there, done that. I get it -- he won't be an olympic athlete, as from what I understand those kids have already been racing for 3-5 years by the time they are 13, but will he even have a shot at the podium at any point in the year -- or will he always be at the bottom of the bunch getting discouraged? Should we just stick with recreational skiing??

Do I just throw him into a program or do I get him some lessons ahead of time to help with the racing aspect of skiing if we decide to take this giant leap?

Thoughts much appreciated.

 

[hbear]

Doesn’t hurt to try. Ideally if the club has a regional U14 program that isn’t as serious that would be the best bet.

The key is to properly setup expectations, e.g. it’s for fun, to learn some skills, meet some friends. Placement in races should be very low on the priority list in my opinion as the kids he will be competing against will have been racing for 7-8 years by then (60+days a year). It’s not realistic nor fair to your son to even think about results/podiums.

If he just loves to ski and can handle not being at the top of the heap, the skills and experiences he will gain are invaluable.

For context its not uncommon for new kids to ski down a level or two so they have a similar ability age to ski with. As far as lessons prior, save your money as race training is very different than ski school (unless instructor has a race background). Just contact the club and speak with the director and go from there. Kids are very encouraging of new racers, but as mentioned so button down why he’s joining and what he hopes to gain from it. (Some kids ski their entire life without even sniffing a podium).

 

[Philpug]

OK, you have a great opportunity for you as a parent and him as a child. He wants to join next year? what is he willing to do to be able to do that? Yes it will be a great commitment for you and it sounds like you are willing to to it which is awesome but he has to commit too. He can contribute to the costs of the gear by summer jobs and he can start training now too. Have him watch Mikaela Shiffrins training videos for what to do..wait..a 12 year old boy..watching them..have him watch Marcel Hirscher's training videos on how to train. Have him start training now, he will come into the program with strength and desire and not just the latest gear.

From Rushmore:
Herman Blume: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.

From The West Wing;
Josh: You have two racers that are the same speed, one with perfect form one with bad form, who do you choose to groom?
Will: The one with the bad form, because you can teach him good form and he he will beat the other one.

 

[crgildart]

Reach out to the resort staff where you'd most likely be taking him. From what I remember there are usually a couple kids that age giving it a go for the first time, but most start younger. As an active resort race coach, @Rudi Riet can give solid advice on this topic.

 

[hlc]

Thanks for such quick replies.
Philpug -- yes, my husband and I have already began thinking about what he has to contribute to make this work, and how he can show his dedication--that its just not a phase (ie. olympics, we just came back from skiing, etc.). But I think we are of two minds, with me leaning towards "let's go for it" and my husband thinking our son should just be a recreational skier and can take racing instruction once or twice some time... We obviously have to get on same page to make this work!
Hbear-- I totally get what you are saying but I don't want him to be so behind the bunch that he is discouraged and dislikes it. He doesn't have to win, or even come close, but if he is just so behind the other racers in his age group and he can essentially never catch up to any of them -- well i am not sure that is great for 13 y/o boy's psyche. Hard work as to pay off...

Anyone have thoughts on joining a local development team on a small "nearby" mountain where he will certainly be one of the oldest kids participating (it goes up to age 13, their actual ski team won't take kids without racing experience b/c the team is too small) versus stepping up and joining a team up in VT. My initial reaction is if you are going to do it, just do it...but I am trying to figure out what he has to learn to be able to even feel confident. To get an idea of his skill set he is a good skier who can ski anything on the mountains we've been to (all in the east). But as I said before, never raced...

Thanks again.

 

[crgildart]

You night not have to drive to the mountains and race locations EVERY time. Race teams usually get some pretty sophisticated car pool arrangements going among the parents. Might be only once a month that you are required to haul a van/SUV full of kids once he gets settled in to a team.

 

[Philpug]

I might have missed it, but where is "nearby" for you? Does he know any of the other kids in the program, where you cab share ride costs?

Race training at this age IMHO could be the best ROI for him as a lifelong skier. I wish I had the opportunity at that age...actually I didn't start skiing until I was 12.

 

[Corgski]

So my kids have been skiing for about 5 years but just a few times a year. They've always been into a variety of different activities and we live quite far from a mountain so...
Anyway, this year my 12 y/o asked if he could join a ski team for next season (would be U14). Obviously it would be a huge family commitment for many reasons, but mainly the distance involved means separating the family for the winter weekends.
He is a good skier - but having never seen a u14 race before, I have no idea where he would stack up. He's never tried gates and he's never skied on racing skis. But he's technically decent (lots of lessons) and not afraid of speed - but again what I think as fast, is probably slow compared to other boys his age.

SO... is it worth the commitment? Obviously you can't really answer that question but I am looking for some input from people who have been there, done that. I get it -- he won't be an olympic athlete, as from what I understand those kids have already been racing for 3-5 years by the time they are 13, but will he even have a shot at the podium at any point in the year -- or will he always be at the bottom of the bunch getting discouraged? Should we just stick with recreational skiing??

Do I just throw him into a program or do I get him some lessons ahead of time to help with the racing aspect of skiing if we decide to take this giant leap?

Thoughts much appreciated.

I am in a similar situation and have been trying to answer some of the same questions. While I don't have the answers, these are my early impressions.

Have you summed up the costs? That alone could answer the question.

Thinking about podiums is the wrong approach, ski racing is a timed sport and there are different ways of assessing yourself. It also depends on the race (school, ussa, NASTAR). Looking at some of my state's high school race results, some racers were so slow I assume they had to be side slipping or wedging down. Ski racing's first impression is that it is only about the elite, once one gets beyond that, there are a lot of people having fun with poor times. And when it comes to ego, a slow ski racing kid is probably way faster and more skilled than most of the other skiers on a mountain.

However, it is probably easier for you to start ski racing than your son, and if you are going to have to drive, maybe you should. Ski racing for kids seems to be a bit over structured and obsessed about age progressions even with kids who are not pursuing high level racing. Start racing aged 50, great, start when you 12, not so much. As soon as one turns 21 and and can start competing in masters, it seems to get more relaxed.

I think it will depend on the program, some seem to be more open to late starters than others. If you are able to say which mountains are in range, there may be people here who could give you advice. Also being in New England, I am very interested in what they might say.

 

[hbear]

Hbear-- I totally get what you are saying but I don't want him to be so behind the bunch that he is discouraged and dislikes it. He doesn't have to win, or even come close, but if he is just so behind the other racers in his age group and he can essentially never catch up to any of them -- well i am not sure that is great for 13 y/o boy's psyche. Hard work as to pay off...


Thanks again.

As posted above, understand where you are coming from but the beauty of racing is that it’s competing with yourself. Try to improve on your own times or progress in your own skills. If the thought is to have him catch up with the kids that have been doing this for 60+days a year since age 4-5, honestly that might be a challenge (as they are improving everyday as well).

At the U14 age (I’m not sure where you are from, sounds like east coast....or race coast) we in western Canada have kids that can outski the very best adults you have seen (save those that used to race themselves), not just in the course but everywhere. Of course those are the best kids, there are also kids not quite as advanced but still super strong skiers. Our U14 race program has kids on snow 96days. To determine joining based on being able to “catch up” to those kids should be a non-starter...high probability your son won’t. That’s just the reality. So my opinion would be to set different expectations and dig down into why racing now. If it’s based on fun, skill development and meeting friends...go for it. If you/him will gauge development by results you are looking in the wrong place. I can tell you his skills will improve like you couldn’t imagine...what the race kids do and how they learn to ski is literally jaw dropping over time and still amazes me.

Kids can still make HUGE strides in development both as a skier and as a person but see absolutely no improvement in the result placement. And that’s perfectly ok.

To add: a good program would have him skiing with the appropriate group as far as development goes. If the program has a regional option (less intense) they will also race in a different series as well. (Easier set, not the top kids, etc.). That being said the strongest skiers in those groups are still amazing, often they end up in that stream due to costs (other program too expensive for family) or time (family can’t make 96days on snow work). They all however ski for fun.

 

[Sibhusky]

My daughter also started sort of late, with our "local" mountain before we moved here. She was written off by those instructors because of that, because we couldn't come for night training, and because she was a female (this became obvious to me about three years in). Nevertheless, her skiing improved tremendously! She didn't always place at the bottom. Her results steadily improved.

Then we moved here. Much more serious coach and they were appalled at what she'd been taught and once again reworked her skiing. She became fluid and graceful, one of those people pointed at when you are riding the chair lift. Her results were better, but she basically ran out of runway because it was time for college. She raced for a year of college, but recognized she was not going to the Olympics. Her coach here had wanted her to delay college, but she was looking much farther down the road and wanted to devote herself to a surer bet.

A few years pass, she's finished with college, back home, saving money for grad school. One of her old coaches asks if she's available, they want her as a coach. So she did that several winters, including during grad school Christmas breaks, and continues doing it the first year of her "career" job even though it's more a three hour drive to get up here every Friday. And why? Because she really enjoys it. Then add the money and the free season pass, but mostly because it's so rewarding to her.

The drive became clearly too much in winter, it was really risking her neck twice a week to be up here given the storms we can get, so she's no longer coaching, but she's still, at 30, racing. For the beer league at her current local mountain, sponsored by her company. And she got the trophy last season for the best woman. This season she's at it again, placing first, second, first so far.

So, did the racing pay off? Definitely, in friendships (they are all "away" races in Montana, so there's a lot of bonding with team mates), skiing technique, some money, some season passes, a rewarding time instructing, etc. Not podiums, although that happened occasionally, but with a huge total life impact. And I think in sheer toughness. As another parent said to me, there's nothing like running late in a race at Mammoth where the slalom course has deep moguls due to the snow and the 100 other people who've been down ahead of you, and are falling and being taken off on sleds, and you're shivering in your speed suit while the winds are howling, and you still push off and go, to build an innate toughness that will pay off later in life.

 

[Jack skis]

This is an interesting discussion as it gets to something I've been thinking about during this World Cup and now Olympic season. The US results are not outstanding so far, the skiers are terrific, but the end results aren't the best. Watching ski racing on the amateur level for many years, and being involved as a kid, as a parent, and as an official, the emphasis has been on quality over quantity, and that makes sense, maybe. It doesn't do much to create a base or a talent pool. Would we get better results if we had a system that developed quantity and let quality work it's own way up? Basketball has about a billion players and manages to get a few to the very top without throwing out the others -- who can keep playing the sport even while being President of the US. It was really discouraging working the Prater Cup at CB and hear parents say if their kids didn't do well at the event they were done with ski racing. From personal experience one of our kids was a racer, skied for the Aspen Ski Club while not yet a teen ager, but then had to endure living on an island and skiing very little. Tried to race NCAA but a non skiing injury put him out of that. Did race in Pro Races in Colorado back in the day, and still runs gates when the opportunity arrives. Makes his living as an ski instructor. His mom raced in high school, college, and in Masters. Neither made the top ranks of ski racing, but they competed with some of the best, and it's possible it made them and those they raced against better at the sport. So would trying to develop some quantity be worth it? I don't know, but it might grow the sport and improve our chances on the international stage.

 

[Rudi Riet]

My $0.02 as the head coach of a smaller, resort-based ski team in the U.S. Ski & Snowboarding ecosystem:

Starting as a first-year U14 will be tougher than starting as a U12, as U14 is the age where you start to see the separation between racers who may be academy bound and those who will merely compete for the love of the sport. There's also a lot of variation due to the wide range of physical and emotional age you see in the 12-14 y.o. age group. Some kids hit puberty head-on at age 12 and are muscular behemoths (albeit about as coordinated as a dizzy wrestler), while others are still smaller and waiting for that hormonal hit. You see all kinds.

That said: if you can find a program where your young athlete will be welcomed, will be given a chance to hone his skills, can race a few races where he'd not be finishing completely in the weeds, and where his coach(es) work on realistic goal setting and progression, that's great! Local programs tend to be great for this, as a stepping stone to a larger resort team, high school team, or academy program. In a smaller local program, most athletes have less pressure and get more individualized attention. The tradeoff is that these teams aren't usually swimming in resources, like private training lanes, high-tech video analysis setups, team vans and tuning rooms, etc. A lack of these resources should not be a determining factor for your young athlete - it's the chemistry of the team setup that should be first and foremost.

One thing is true: quite a few teams won't take on a new racer who is entering the sport as a U14, as there's often a large amount of catch-up work that needs to happen in bringing a comparatively "older" athlete up to speed. The athletes who start earlier have been versed on how to run slalom and GS courses (as well as SG if they race out west), have training and race day routines setup, and may be tough critics of a new person showing up who doesn't already know the ropes. At that age, kids can be overly cruel.

A question: does your young athlete have any friends who are already in alpine racing? Never discount the confidence and comfort that come from having a friend or two already on the team, especially as your son will be starting his alpine racing journey at an older age. This can also help with the last item from the previous paragraph, as having a peer advocate helps.

I think it might be good to have your athlete sit-in with a team or two to test the waters. Approach the head coach of the team you want to audition, and let your son get a feel for things. If there is a short-term development program available (such as one that takes on a 3-4 week "camp" approach), that's great for a quick primer on how to race. Most teams are more open to a "rookie" U14 who has been to a development camp or program - it's like colleges preferring transfer students who have already earned the equivalent of an associate's degree, as all the core skills will be there.

And temper expectations. The sport should be fun at every age, and as long as your son has a positive attitude it'll help soften the blow as he learns the ins and outs of alpine racing. As my former coach and mentor, Olle Larsson, used to repeat: attitude is everything!

Best of luck finding him a program. I hope you find a way to get your son into alpine racing, as it's a wonderful way to learn to ski really well and learn a lot about life, in general.

 

[Alexzn]

A U14 parent here. Your son will become a MUCH better skier, very very fast. You will spend a lot of money on ski equipment. And you will have to put your parent ego in the drawer for quite a while, and forget about decent placements. Those kids are all really, really good, and the top 10-15 are unbelievably good. They all have been doing it for years and and some do it every day. And no, ski lessons just don't prepare you for a U level training/racing. But it's an awesome program, and should be a fantastic experience for a kid. So, do it!

 

[crgildart]

Even if your kid is the least experienced 12 year old on the team, even if they are less experienced than all the 8 year olds, they will still improve and excel much faster and to levels no non ski team kid will likely achieve in their teens. They may not win or even place above the bottom finishers who don't DQ but they will still have lots of fun and nothing is better to quickly improve than a team training environment with some competition thrown in.

If they decide the want to teach or coach after high school they will already have a tool box full of drills and knowledge along with the skiing chops to back that up. Great stepping stone in to instruction where clinics can take them to the next level beyond wherever they are there.

 

[x10003q]

If you are committed to a full season at a ski area and all the time and expense that comes with the decision, put your boy in a seasonal, recreational/master the mountain type program. Let him really learn how to ski. He will be placed with a similar group of kids based on his age and ability. His skiing will improve greatly and he will learn the skills that will make stepping into racing easier. This also gives you a year to see if this type of commitment (long drive/every weekend) works for your family and your son before you invest in racing.

 

[Ohioskier]

If you are committed to a full season at a ski area and all the time and expense that comes with the decision, put your boy in a seasonal, recreational/master the mountain type program. Let him really learn how to ski. He will be placed with a similar group of kids based on his age and ability. His skiing will improve greatly and he will learn the skills that will make stepping into racing easier. This also gives you a year to see if this type of commitment (long drive/every weekend) works for your family and your son before you invest in racing.

This is what I would do. More time on a local hill even if it’s smaller will pay off with more skiing. Check with the local ski area many will have introduction to race type programs that are economic and good instruction. They also might have a nastar program. That will be less costly but he can show how serious he is.

 

[robertc3]

As the parent of two racers, U12 and U16, having your kids in a race program is the best way to help them become the best skiers they can be. At our mountain the race team has the best coaches and the best skiers on the hill. The kids who are in the program are surrounded by top skiers and taught by top coaches, so they develop more quickly than kids in an all mountain program. If you can afford the cost, make the commitment, and you son can handle the fact that he will be way behind the majority of his age group peers, then you should absolutely do it.

 

[SkiSchoolPros]

Has your son ever run any gates? Nastar? Still time left this season for him to give it a try and see if it is for him. Maybe see if he can do a day of training before the season ends with the organization he would join next year.

Given that it is unlikely he will podium in upper level U14 races, look for ways to track his progress that may better show his actual improvement, i.e. Nastar handicap...best to get a few baseline handicaps on several courses with several different pace setters.

As others have said, frequent race training will improve his skiing and he might benefit in other ways as well (friendships, fitness, etc). If he understands he won't be winning big races next year and his goals are to ski more, improve as a skier and make friends, then have him go for it (assuming you and your family are willing to make the sacrifices it will take for him to do this).

This is an interesting discussion as it gets to something I've been thinking about during this World Cup and now Olympic season. The US results are not outstanding so far, the skiers are terrific, but the end results aren't the best. Watching ski racing on the amateur level for many years, and being involved as a kid, as a parent, and as an official, the emphasis has been on quality over quantity, and that makes sense, maybe. It doesn't do much to create a base or a talent pool. Would we get better results if we had a system that developed quantity and let quality work it's own way up? Basketball has about a billion players and manages to get a few to the very top without throwing out the others -- who can keep playing the sport even while being President of the US. It was really discouraging working the Prater Cup at CB and hear parents say if their kids didn't do well at the event they were done with ski racing. From personal experience one of our kids was a racer, skied for the Aspen Ski Club while not yet a teen ager, but then had to endure living on an island and skiing very little. Tried to race NCAA but a non skiing injury put him out of that. Did race in Pro Races in Colorado back in the day, and still runs gates when the opportunity arrives. Makes his living as an ski instructor. His mom raced in high school, college, and in Masters. Neither made the top ranks of ski racing, but they competed with some of the best, and it's possible it made them and those they raced against better at the sport. So would trying to develop some quantity be worth it? I don't know, but it might grow the sport and improve our chances on the international stage.

Less than 5% of Americans ski, over 35% for Austrians & Swiss...no doubt we would have more on the podium if more were exposed to the sport and had the funds to train. I have heard that China is looking to have 300 million skiers by 2022.

 

[Corgski]

If you are committed to a full season at a ski area and all the time and expense that comes with the decision, put your boy in a seasonal, recreational/master the mountain type program. Let him really learn how to ski. He will be placed with a similar group of kids based on his age and ability. His skiing will improve greatly and he will learn the skills that will make stepping into racing easier. This also gives you a year to see if this type of commitment (long drive/every weekend) works for your family and your son before you invest in racing.

As the parent of two racers, U12 and U16, having your kids in a race program is the best way to help them become the best skiers they can be. At our mountain the race team has the best coaches and the best skiers on the hill. The kids who are in the program are surrounded by top skiers and taught by top coaches, so they develop more quickly than kids in an all mountain program. If you can afford the cost, make the commitment, and you son can handle the fact that he will be way behind the majority of his age group peers, then you should absolutely do it.

I am somewhat caught between these two options. At U14 level,not only does one have the catch up problem, the equipment requirements are very significant and are not that relevant for someone who really first needs to become a good all round skier. On the the other hand, ski racing is usually considered to have the better coaching. In general coaching quality for kids can be really bad and you really have to be sure what level of coaching your kid is going to get. Your kid could be "taught" to ski the entire mountain and still not really know how to ski. Maybe one could find an all mountain program recommended by the racing program.

 

[Corgski]

Less than 5% of Americans ski, over 35% for Austrians & Swiss...no doubt we would have more on the podium if more were exposed to the sport and had the funds to train. I have heard that China is looking to have 300 million skiers by 2022.

Most Americans do not have good enough access to skiing, but 5% in absolute numbers is still larger than Austria's skiing population. My question would be, if you have good skiing access and are an active skier, how accessible is ski racing in the USA relative to Austria?