Where should the Newbie be positioned on the trail?

[Fishbowl]

If you are capable of performing predictable, repeatable turns in a predetermined corridor that is neither too close to the edge of the trail nor to the center, whilst being able to remain visable and having the capability to stop safely at the place of you choosing.........you are not a slave to the terrain, but the master of it.

I think the skier who is truly in over their head, is probably regulated to making shallow traverses as they shop for turns. If those turns don't come, they will strop at the trail edge and start over. In this case it would be best to keep your focus uphill and try to time your traverses to have as little impact on the rest of the traffic as possible.

 

[raytseng]

I would agree with the posts to do your own thing and focus on your own skiing and whatever makes your life easier. The advanced will go around.

If you can control your turns , do leave a lane as you're skiing around, don't go all the way from edge to edge on every turn.

By being overly considerate, you may target fixate on the other skier or otherwise end up making a mistake or unpredicable move that ends up causing a wipe out. Then we feel bad, and slow down to help pick up your stuff.

Where you can make a difference is in stopping, do follow the code on that. If you're in a group especially, stop in designated areas-behind the sign if you can not in front. If on the trail, stack up your group of skiers in a column, don't be like snowboarders and form the Great Wall of Snowboarders blocking the trail.

 

[LiquidFeet]

New England is ripe with over-crowded runs. This dilemma we are discussing is often the case here on our narrow trails. It's a problem for skiers building their skills, and the problem is due to three things: the high traffic, the irresponsibility and inconsiderateness of faster skiers, and the omnipresence of polished hard-snow.

The best way to avoid this issue when one is a novice/lower intermediate learning to handle groomers with some pitch is to ski on weekdays when there are no crowds, or if you can only ski on weekends, seek out small mountains that don't get as much traffic. It's a safety issue.

The cautious skier shopping for turns (looking for edge-able snow here and there on a groomed trail), or one who is traversing and making cautious turns only at the edge of the trail, is not the cause of the safety issue. It's everyone else that's causing the problem.

Ski the trails you want to ski, but avoid crowds if at all possible!

 

[L&AirC]

Something that I didn't notice as I "skimmed" through the posts was putting the terrain to use to your advantage. By that I mean the trail is steepest when you are heading down hill (fall line) and can be flat heading across it. This way you can make the majority of the trail as steep as your are comfortable with. I say the majority of the trail because the fall line will still be steep, but if you are patient through the turn and hold it, you will see that it helps you slow down by continuing up the hill.

I also want to reiterate that being consistent and predictable will make it so everyone else knows how to ski around you. Consider driving a car and you put you signal on to make a left turn. As you approach the road you want to turn down, you notice the car traveling on the other side of the road slow down and stop prior to your turn so you can take the turn.

The problem is the other car shouldn't have stopped because it had the right of way. Any car that was traveling behind it would be slamming on its brakes and you're thinking "is he letting me go or drunk?" The other driver was probably just trying to be nice, but everyone was thrown off because he did what wasn't expected. Had he kept driving and not stopped, the "flow" wouldn't have been interrupted.

 

[CalG]

I thought I would pose this question to the more experienced skiers: Where would you like to see new and nervous skiers on the trails? I'm not necessarily taking about trail ratings of Green, Blue, etc. but actual placement.

Let's say as a new skier I decide I'm ready to get on a Blue trail but once there I realize I bit off more than I can chew. Should I stay off to the side as I inch my way down or should I be clearly visible in the middle and leave the sides for faster passing skiers? I know it is the responsibility of the uphill skier to be vigilant but where would the nervous skier be most out of their way?

Stay down hill of all the wrecks!

And ski down the middle of the trail . Do predictable symmetric turns. The "skiers" will skirt the edges.

 

[markojp]

Beginners, by nature, don't typically execute consistent, symmetrical turns.

 

[mdf]

Beginners, by nature, don't typically execute consistent, symmetrical turns.

And we shouldn't expect them to.

This thread has been around awhile, so I might be repeating myself. But when we ski past beginners, it is not sufficient to ski so that we know we are not going to hit them. We should ski so that THEY know we are not going to hit them.

 

[socalgal]

And we shouldn't expect them to.

This thread has been around awhile, so I might be repeating myself. But when we ski past beginners, it is not sufficient to ski so that we know we are not going to hit them. We should ski so that THEY know we are not going to hit them.

Yes!

 

[François Pugh]

And we shouldn't expect them to.

This thread has been around awhile, so I might be repeating myself. But when we ski past beginners, it is not sufficient to ski so that we know we are not going to hit them. We should ski so that THEY know we are not going to hit them.

Yes!
Beginners need an EXTRA margin of safety to feel safe.

The MINIMUM margin of safety for passing advanced skiers is that no matter what they do they will not be able to intercept your path.
I learned that the hard way years ago when a rather large skier making turns ahead of me made eye contact, as if to say, "Go ahead and pass me; I'm going to continue this pattern of turns." Apparently what he really meant was, "You son of a bitch! How dare you ski faster than me? If you try and pass me I'm going to run you over!" I avoided the collision at the last second, but the avoidance maneuver put me so far out of position that I was not able to recover and fell. I couldn't lift my arm above my shoulder for a month.

Since then, my hard-learned policy has saved me from a few other collisions. Strangely enough, it's always a very large boarder or skier, who sees me, makes like he is going to zig and then zags at the last moment. The last one was a boarder how saw me and was following his girl friend left to another run, but turned right at the last second, but I'm very good at judging space and time, so no collisions.

 

[Tricia]

This thread has been around awhile, so I might be repeating myself. But when we ski past beginners, it is not sufficient to ski so that we know we are not going to hit them. We should ski so that THEY know we are not going to hit them.

I don't think its a repeat, but even so, its worth repeating.

 

[Blue Streak]

Beginners, by nature, don't typically execute consistent, symmetrical turns.

Not just beginners.

 

[Blue Streak]

"Head on a swivel" is really good advice for us all, even under the best of circumstances.

 

[markojp]

And we shouldn't expect them to.

This thread has been around awhile, so I might be repeating myself. But when we ski past beginners, it is not sufficient to ski so that we know we are not going to hit them. We should ski so that THEY know we are not going to hit them.

Exactly!

(and exactly my point)

 

[Stev]

This thread makes me think about related issues and brings up questions and answers that might be worth a separate thread.
A question -
When should you take another lesson?
If you are in the situation this newbie is in. Sign up for another lesson as soon as possible after skiing down this run. A free mountain tour, if offered, is also a good idea.

What resorts have ample, well thought out, separated, beginner terrain?
A few that come to mind are:
- Copper Mountain in Colorado (West Village, The Schoolhouse)
- Alta in Utah (Albion Base)
- Mt. Rose in Nevada near Lake Tahoe (Two consecutive beginner lifts in the Enchanted Forest area on the Rose side)
Many of you may know of others.

There are also a couple of major, well known, Tahoe resorts that have beginner terrain that is less than ideal:
- Heavenly
- Squaw Valley
They have a good portion of their beginner terrain in mid-mountain, high traffic areas.

I'll add an honorable mention for Kirkwood in California near Lake Tahoe. While well known for its steeps, both of its beginner areas are separated pretty well and they are adjacent to good lower intermediate terrain. (Chair 9 next to Chair 7 at Timber Creek and Chair 1 near Chairs 2 and 3 starting from the Main Lodge/Village)

 

[Monique]

And we shouldn't expect them to.

This thread has been around awhile, so I might be repeating myself. But when we ski past beginners, it is not sufficient to ski so that we know we are not going to hit them. We should ski so that THEY know we are not going to hit them.

Jumping on the bandwagon to +1 this, because I don't think I've ever seen it stated quite so clearly and succinctly.

I don't always succeed (because I am not always able to put myself in their ski boots), but this is how we should all try to ski.

(Except cat tracks, right? Cat tracks are the worst for bringing out ... well, the worst in me.)

 

[1chris5]

I think about this a lot because I ski with my wife who is an intermediate and kids who are kids.
1. Head on a swivel. Before you start skiing make sure you know who is above and where. Don't trust people to yield behind you. Half the time, people think you don't belong on the same slope and you're at fault. There is no reasoning with some people.
2. While skiing - head on a swivel when you are skiing in a traverse. I wouldn't crane your neck to see what's behind you but try to have a picture of what's behind you.
3. Don't stop if you can't see skiers and snowboarders above you. Line of site for oncoming skiers and snowboarders is critical.
4. In the Poconos, be careful skiing and stopping on edge. Snowboarders and skiers ski the edge like a terrain park feature. Stopping a little off the edge is typically where I go.
5. I only ski on weekdays. On the off chance it's busy, I only ski steepest and iciest where people don't go. Also, crazy snowboarders gravitate to beginner and intermediate terrain. Much less chance for packs of skiers/snowboarders on steeper, icier terrain. Incentive to take lessons and get better quick.
6.Try to be consistent with turns. Envision an alley and try to turn at each edge. Don't just keep traversing and not turn if you can help it.
7. Smile while you are skiing.
Cheers

 

[Monique]

On the off chance it's busy, I only ski steepest and iciest where people don't go. Also, crazy snowboarders gravitate to beginner and intermediate terrain. Much less chance for packs of skiers/snowboarders on steeper, icier terrain. Incentive to take lessons and get better quick.

In general, I think skiers are safest when they self-segregate into ability-appropriate terrain. Beginners are unpredictable, but rarely going very fast. Intermediates are all over the map. As far as I'm concerned, I'm safer on a double black or in the trees than on a blue with skiers of varying levels of control whipping by me. This became very clear to me during rehab.

That's part of the reason that early season is so dangerous - skiers who've been starved for snow all summer, packed into a couple of runs, no ability to segregate by ability. Kids, pros, enthusiastic intermediates, and then there's me ... after about 4 or 5 of the same short run, I find myself adding "spice" by going too fast for my surroundings. Then I start noticing the number of sleds ski patrol is shepherding down, and I stop for the day. At this point, at least I know myself well enough to watch for that temptation and quit while I'm ahead.

 

[markojp]

The greater the skills, the greater the responsibility.

 

[1chris5]

In general, I think skiers are safest when they self-segregate into ability-appropriate terrain. Beginners are unpredictable, but rarely going very fast. Intermediates are all over the map. As far as I'm concerned, I'm safer on a double black or in the trees than on a blue with skiers of varying levels of control whipping by me. This became very clear to me during rehab.

That's part of the reason that early season is so dangerous - skiers who've been starved for snow all summer, packed into a couple of runs, no ability to segregate by ability. Kids, pros, enthusiastic intermediates, and then there's me ... after about 4 or 5 of the same short run, I find myself adding "spice" by going too fast for my surroundings. Then I start noticing the number of sleds ski patrol is shepherding down, and I stop for the day. At this point, at least I know myself well enough to watch for that temptation and quit while I'm ahead.

In the Poconos self -segregation isn't going to happen. Skiing on beginning and intermediate is often like driving on the Garden State Parkway. It's shocking the way people snowboard/ski and drive with such incomprehensible recklessness. It's actually awesome to behold but the consequences can be dire. Cheers

 

[BC.]

In the Poconos self -segregation isn't going to happen. Skiing on beginning and intermediate is often like driving on the Garden State Parkway. It's shocking the way people snowboard/ski and drive with such incomprehensible recklessness. It's actually awesome to behold but the consequences can be dire. Cheers

It's why if you are skiing in PA or at Huntah....you have to go first thing in the am and get out of there by noon.