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Where should the Newbie be positioned on the trail?

Philpug

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Leaving aside the issue of what makes it easier for the newbie to get down, I think about it is best to be near-ish but not right at the edge. Then the middle is open for people a little better than you who are challenged but attacking (and clueless, skillless zoomers). But leave a lane at the side for the skiers who are hugging the edge of the trail.

And as noted above, being visible and predictable is the most important thing to do.

IMHO, this is the answer in four words.
 

LiquidFeet

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"Being predictable" puts the responsibility for not getting hit on the skier who is ahead of those who are approaching them from uphill. However, it's a very good idea to be predictable, and ski a consistently narrow or wide corridor down the trail.

The skier's code of responsibility puts the responsibility to not cause a crash on the skiers who are uphill, trying to pass slower skiers ahead of them who are unpredictable. But most people don't follow this rule and ski far enough away and slow enough to avoid unpredictable skiers ahead of them. They don't even know they are in the wrong.

And we all know that being predictable is not always possible. Sometimes here in the northeast, trails get polished into ice, with little pillows of edgeable snow spaced out here and there. Skiers in over their head need to aim for those pillows and turn on them; the line will be unpredictable. There are other situations where unpredictable lines are necessary, too. It just happens.

When it does, the flummoxed skier needs to stop and wait for traffic to clear. It's also good to learn to turn your head to look back uphill without turning your shoulders, hips, and skis. This, of course, takes some time to learn to do.

The skier's code of responsibility does not cover this situation very well, which is sad.
 
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agreen

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How about when I am skiing with my 9 and 5 yr old daughters? Is it better to ski behind them and "block" any oncoming threats or in front of them with the thought of "follow my very predictable path"? They can both make decent wedge turns and ski in control but the 5 yr old tends to cut across the slope a ways to control speed. Sorry for the slight thread drift but I think this topic is related.
 

agreen

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I always skied behind Gavin when he was little. I preferred to block. Also, if he fell and needed help, I didn't have to climb back up.
Yeah, I'm usually behind both of them. The problem is when they start going in different directions. I have to reign them in. With the great groomer conditions at Mammoth recently there were some real speed demons flying by us. Got me a bit nervous so sometimes I had them follow me very closely making tighter linked turns right down the middle.
 

Monique

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I didn't know if I was an annoyance/obstacle to them.

I understand wondering about that, but - don't worry about it. Focus on your own skiing. Let them focus on theirs. There are plenty of scenarios where a skier needs to navigate obstacles, sometimes annoyances - it's part of the deal. And as others have said, we were all "that person" at one time or another.

I think the ski patrol "cab ride" is going to be very situational, depending on how busy they are, how bad the slope, etc. I would not rely on it one bit.

Yeah, I suspect this as well. Also, being tucked into a sled because you're injured stinks - but sitting on top "rodeo style" is also not all that fun. It feels like you're going to tip off the sled all the time. (I was involved in a collision that bent my brake. I suggested I could hike down, but the patrol was already there and did not want me to do that. I'm not sure if that was a general aversion to people walking around on the slope, or because they suspected I was too rattled to be trusted.)

I've been told by an instructor (PSIA level 3, FWIW), when tagging along on my daughter's lesson, that it's best to be in the middle when going slowly, both because some people ski fast down the edges and because it makes you more visible from above (and means skiers above you can pass you on two sides).

Also, if the resort allows tree skiing, it's likely that someone will pop out of the trees. They probably won't have been able to see the exit well or slow down, you probably won't be on the lookout for them, and it will give you a nasty scare.

The skier's code of responsibility puts the responsibility to not cause a crash on the skiers who are uphill, trying to pass slower skiers ahead of them who are unpredictable.

This is true, but if there's something I can do to minimize a collision, I'd rather do that than care about who caused it.
 

fatbob

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Great OP and some sound advice. Unfortunately if you are somewhere a little out of your depth there is little you can do to assuage the feeling that lots of people may be about to hit you. That's where you have to trust that most people aren't psychos who are out to get you.

're blocking for kids I think it's a terrible idea unless you are really really good and right on your kids' tails. You obstruct uphill skiers' view of your kids and present a bigger combined obstacle for overtakers to try to get past safely. At the extreme someone may safely pass you and run smack into your kid who you had successfully screened. NB this isn't about rights or the code but practicalities.
 

T-Square

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How about when I am skiing with my 9 and 5 yr old daughters? Is it better to ski behind them and "block" any oncoming threats or in front of them with the thought of "follow my very predictable path"? They can both make decent wedge turns and ski in control but the 5 yr old tends to cut across the slope a ways to control speed. Sorry for the slight thread drift but I think this topic is related.

Smart place for you to be. Makes it safer for the kids.

With a group of little ones I like to be in the rear to pick up kids if they fall. (It sucks to walk back up.) I also use this as an opportunity to allow the kids to lead. "Mary please lead us down 20 turns and stop at the side of the trail where it is safe," This puts me in a position to watch the kids and keep uphill skiers aware of the group below me.

When teaching adaptive we like to have someone in the rear acting as a blocker for safety of the student.
 

Tricia

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And as noted above, being visible and predictable is the most important thing to do.
I would say that it doesn't matter so much where you are on the trail, so much as trying to maintain a consistent corridor. Be predictable, so others can pass you safely.
and don't stop somewhere out of sight (ie behind a knoll) or in a choke point.
These two posts nail it pretty well.

As a beginner, I'd say where you ski to be most safe and less of a distraction to others depends a little on where the snow and terrain is that you're most comfortable and have the potential to be most predictable.

As @Monique said, skiing along the edges is something a lot of advanced skiers do because that's where soft snow tends to be, and its also a place where someone may pop out of the trees unexpectedly.

Do what you need to do to ski confidently, in control, and if you happen to stop for a break on the way down, stop in a line of sight and always look up hill before you start again so you can make sure you're not starting into the line of a skier who thinks your still resting.
 

Mendieta

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Smart place for you to be. Makes it safer for the kids.

With a group of little ones I like to be in the rear to pick up kids if they fall. (It sucks to walk back up.)

Yes, I do that (not so much anymore with my son who is almost my size already :), but still with my daughter). Or even with kids I don't know. When skiing in narrow spaces, particularly catwalks, if I see a little one, and their parent is in front of them, I stay behind to protect them. And then do my thing when the run opens up.

Another simple tip. If I am over my head, first I let other people go in, and only enter the run when nobody that I can see is coming to the run. Once I am in, if I hear people uphill, I turn, see where they am, stop, let them go, and resume when there is nobody uphill.

Crowds are never a good thing.
 

pais alto

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…being tucked into a sled because you're injured stinks - but sitting on top "rodeo style" is also not all that fun.

Compared to falling and tumbling, possibly out of control, all the way down a run?

It feels like you're going to tip off the sled all the time.

Hmm, for "taxi rides" (which are pretty common where I work) the person sits on the bottom of the sled, feet forward, in front of the "burrito" (the yellow tarp that wraps up the first aid equipment). Very stable. I'd strongly encourage anyone that is feeling over-terrained not to hesitate to call for patrol. They may be busy, but it's not likely that they'll be too busy to help someone that can't progress safely down the hill on their own.
 

Monique

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Compared to falling and tumbling, possibly out of control, all the way down a run?

Hmm, for "taxi rides" (which are pretty common where I work) the person sits on the bottom of the sled, feet forward, in front of the "burrito" (the yellow tarp that wraps up the first aid equipment). Very stable. I'd strongly encourage anyone that is feeling over-terrained not to hesitate to call for patrol. They may be busy, but it's not likely that they'll be too busy to help someone that can't progress safely down the hill on their own.

You're the expert. In my case, for whatever reason, I was told to sit on top of the burrito, not in front of it, holding on to the strap sort of like a pommel. We weren't going very fast, but there was a subtle double fall line, so I was constantly bracing myself in a way that irritated the groin muscle that I thereby discovered was pulled.

Hmm. The only times I remember myself truly falling and tumbling a lot were in deep powder, and that was fun (I was a lot younger then). Back in the day, I would get upset and scared pretty frequently, but I was always able to get down with maybe a fall or two. Maybe I've been lucky, or just blocked it out.
 

Pat AKA mustski

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I have never called ski patrol for a taxi ride, but if I accidentally ended up in terrain too hairy for me to ski... YES. That is a far better option than putting myself - and any other skiers in the area - at risk. So far I have been lucky. I've taken wrong turn but nothing that I can't figure a way out of.
 

T-Square

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Please, don't be afraid of asking for a taxi ride. Just ask an instructor, patroller, or courtesy patrol for assistance. Or ask someone to let the lifties know. If all else fails pull out the phone and call the mountain. At the Dartmouth Skiway the patrol is happy to provide them. It keeps the skier safe, it keeps the others on the hill safe, and the patrollers love the practice of taking someone down the hill who isn't injured.

The worst accident I witnessed from the chair was someone way over her head. She was on a blue and out of control. Went into the woods at about 20 MPH. Thank God she stood up just before she hit the tree with a ski on each side of the trunk. She was knocked out but survived. I found out later she had refused a taxi ride. Please be smart and safe.
 

pais alto

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Please, don't be afraid of asking for a taxi ride. Just ask an instructor, patroller, or courtesy patrol for assistance. Or ask someone to let the lifties know. If all else fails pull out the phone and call the mountain. At the Dartmouth Skiway the patrol is happy to provide them. It keeps the skier safe, it keeps the others on the hill safe, and the patrollers love the practice of taking someone down the hill who isn't injured.

The worst accident I witnessed from the chair was someone way over her head. She was on a blue and out of control. Went into the woods at about 20 MPH. Thank God she stood up just before she hit the tree with a ski on each side of the trunk. She was knocked out but survived. I found out later she had refused a taxi ride. Please be smart and safe.

Double like.
 

surfsnowgirl

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Please, don't be afraid of asking for a taxi ride. Just ask an instructor, patroller, or courtesy patrol for assistance. Or ask someone to let the lifties know. If all else fails pull out the phone and call the mountain. At the Dartmouth Skiway the patrol is happy to provide them. It keeps the skier safe, it keeps the others on the hill safe, and the patrollers love the practice of taking someone down the hill who isn't injured.

The worst accident I witnessed from the chair was someone way over her head. She was on a blue and out of control. Went into the woods at about 20 MPH. Thank God she stood up just before she hit the tree with a ski on each side of the trunk. She was knocked out but survived. I found out later she had refused a taxi ride. Please be smart and safe.

Triple like
 

Monique

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I sit corrected!

Although I would still say - if you're over your head, yes, call ski patrol. But try your best not to be in that position, because policies may differ and even if they do provide taxi rides, they may have higher priority issues at the moment.
 

Monique

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Honestly they should send a ski instructor up to get the skier down ... missed opportunity.
 

François Pugh

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It doesn't matter where you are, but if you are skiing back and forth from one side to the other so as to make the over-all descent less steep, it is safer to turn before you get to the very edge. That way you leave a safety margin for over-taking skiers who should know better than to expect you to leave that safety margin.

As a ski patroller for the last 5 years, I have helped many over-challenged skiers make it to the bottom in one piece. We would rather do that than pick up the pieces, or have to treat your injuries.
 

skichickee

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The simple fact that you're even thinking about this says you are already a far more considerate skier than so many out there! :golfclap: I agree with above posts - visible, predictable, stop to the side if needed in a highly visible spot out of the way of traffic.
 

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