Vail Resorts and Whistler Blackcomb Agree To Strategic Combination

[ski otter 2]

Actually, I'm pretty sure Winter Park started the season pass wars. Vail obviously has taken it to an extreme, but they had to compete with the other CO resorts first.


"...The 'pass war' began in 1998, when Winter Park dropped its season-ticket price to about $200. That move pushed other resorts to do the same or lose market share.

"In 1997, for example, a season pass for Keystone, Breckenridge and A-Basin cost $750. Winter Park’s season pass cost $600, and Copper’s cost $595...."

http://www.denverpost.com/2007/09/07/ski-pass-cost-comparison-softens-lift-whines/

Here is another interesting article:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...unt-war/3539ac1b-b09c-431d-8c31-3251b514e862/

The chapter in the Colorado season ticket wars I most remember happened back in the late eighties, early nineties. That was when every year I got a Summit Pass (or whatever it was called) that included unlimited skiing at Copper, A Basin, Keystone and, I believe, Breck: can't recall, but probably also Winter Park - all at a single, reasonable price. That's the pass I still wish I could get.

In practice, back then I'd only ski Copper, A Basin, less than a half dozen at Winter Park, and a few at Keystone and Breck (in a sixty to around ninety-five day season, for me). The best.

A big deal, at least for me: having A Basin and Copper on the same cheap season pass was a big deal.


Then Vail bought up the competition, including A Basin, Breck and Keystone, and that pass ended. And prices rose.

I understand the split up season passes increased in price for a while, but my memory gets fuzzy there. I guess until the above mentioned Winter Park move in the late nineties.

(Note: For monopoly reasons, Vail had to free up A Basin, but kept a relationship with them through the Epic Pass.)

 

[DanoT]

Regardless of who started discounting or when, it was still Vail's multi resort Epic Pass that really got the other multi resort passes going and spreading outside of Colorado.

 

[Mike King]

This is a message to the rest of the resort market. Better toughen up, sharpen your strategy, and be prepared to rock and roll. Vail is now the dominant player in North America. Global domination is next.

I haven't seen a coherent response from the industry. The Mountain Collective just added Telluride and Revelstoke, but it is a niche market. Vail is upping the game -- will the industry respond?

Mike

 

[Tricia]

 

[Core2]

Someone should base jump out of the gondola to protest this.

 

[Spooky]

Good note: it will feel better blaming Vail when it rains.

 

[fatbob]

This is a message to the rest of the resort market. Better toughen up, sharpen your strategy, and be prepared to rock and roll. Vail is now the dominant player in North America. Global domination is next.

I haven't seen a coherent response from the industry. The Mountain Collective just added Telluride and Revelstoke, but it is a niche market. Vail is upping the game -- will the industry respond?

Mike

Global domination won't be next - European ski infrastructure is vastly different from that in US & Canada and many US companies have come unstuck when trying to profitably do business in France for example where the red tape, croneyism and labour laws are completely alien. Many ski areas are political alliances between different owners/local communes with complex politics on co-operation and revenue split. Plus Vail would have to strong arm the local mafia (many resorts are under defacto control of a limited group of local farming/landowning families).

I don't know about Japan - maybe the resorts there hold lots of services under a single owner but they do have independent ski schools I believe.

 

[Philpug]

Good note: it will feel better blaming Vail when it rains.

It hasn't rained here in almost 3 months..I blame Vail.

 

[Jilly]

Can I blame them too. We are almost drought conditions in Ontario. Thank God for a big lake to draw water from.

 

[Monique]

I lump Buying Breck and Keystone in this category.

I continue to fantasize that somehow Breck will break free of VR and be its own entity again, visitor count will go down, and I can enjoy my favorite skiing with fewer crowds. I realize that 1) I never skied Breck when it wasn't VR and 2) my fantasy is never going to happen on so many levels - but hey, that's why I called it a fantasy.

 

[Monique]

FWIW I dug this up trying to find out when VR bought Breck (apparently 1996): http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1996/V...hoe-Basin/id-f8deeb652de6960bb3098b1a8b663abd

Is A Basin still owned by a company that largely produces cereal and baby food?

 

[quant]

Is A Basin still owned by a company that largely produces cereal and baby food?[/QUOTE]


Dream Unlimited Corp. is a Canadian RE developer and operator of REITs. No cereal or baby food there... I think, but am not certain, that Dundee RE was the subsidiary or partnership or whatever that bought into A-Basin and Bear Valley, which is a smaller area in CA. Of course, Bear Valley is no longer owned by Dundee. A-Basin is profitable, but Bear Valley was bleeding cash.

 

[SBrown]

FWIW I dug this up trying to find out when VR bought Breck (apparently 1996): http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1996/V...hoe-Basin/id-f8deeb652de6960bb3098b1a8b663abd

Is A Basin still owned by a company that largely produces cereal and baby food?

That was Ralston-Purina (pet food, too), which is who sold ABasin to Vail in mid 90s. Then, as pointed out, Vail had to divest to the real estate company.

 

[Monique]

That was Ralston-Purina (pet food, too)

My dad knew someone in the Ralston family ... they sold it pretty early, I think. Weird though.

 

[ski otter 2]

Complicating things further, back in '96, Vail was under different ownership, not Katz and the NYC investment corp. boys. And things back then were better for employees, from what I gather.

Back then, it was a cooperative of Summit County ski areas under one season pass vs. Vail. That early Summit Pass coop, not Vail, came up with the multiple area pass thing. Vail acquired it when they took over most of the others.

That left Copper the odd man out.

 

[ski otter 2]

Credit Katz and Co for putting into overdrive an already successful Vail acquisition strategy.
Oh, wait.
Acquisition is what NYC investment bankers/corps. do.

(Correct me, someone, was it Katz & Co who moved the Vail business offices to Broomfield? [To lower the rank-in-file white collar costs, probably?])
(Why have those pesky employees actually live up in Vail or Eagle County? In Broomfield, you don't have to worry about their housing; or their skiing. Or community spirit.)

 

[Jeff N]

I continue to fantasize that somehow Breck will break free of VR and be its own entity again, visitor count will go down, and I can enjoy my favorite skiing with fewer crowds. I realize that 1) I never skied Breck when it wasn't VR and 2) my fantasy is never going to happen on so many levels - but hey, that's why I called it a fantasy.

Growing up in Colorado Springs, I skied a lot of Breck growing up in the 80's. Free walk to the lifts parking at the base of Peak 8 seems just totally alien today.

I remember waiting for the Colorado Superchair and basically nothing else. At the time high speed lifts were super new and drew tons of traffic.

I think there is exactly 0 chance Vail will sell Breck, which leaves an anti-trust breakup as the only option, and that was tried.

 

[Jeff N]

FWIW I dug this up trying to find out when VR bought Breck (apparently 1996): http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1996/V...hoe-Basin/id-f8deeb652de6960bb3098b1a8b663abd

Is A Basin still owned by a company that largely produces cereal and baby food?

Ralston Purina really seemed to do well as a ski area owner. They consolidated Breck, Keystone, and A-Basin, they joined with Copper to jointly market the county, and they invested into the Ouitback terrain expansion, the North Peak Gondola, and the restaurant complex up there.

Breck has been owned by a lot of odd companies. Aspen Skiing Company bought Breck in 1970. IIRC, during its Aspen years, Breck had an Aspen leaf as part of their logo. However, I can't find it on a google search so maybe I am not remembering.

Aspen (and Breck) was bought by 20th Century Fox in 1978, when the movie studio had more money than they knew what to do with after Star Wars. Ralston-Purina Bought Breck in 1993.

 

[Monique]

I think there is exactly 0 chance Vail will sell Breck, which leaves an anti-trust breakup as the only option, and that was tried.

Hence why it is my fantasy =/ It's a total cash cow and a tourist paradise. I would imagine they'd sell Keystone before they'd sell Breck. That might be my bias talking, but Breck does rack up those crazy high skier visits.

Then again, maybe it's thanks to VR that I can take a lift up peak 6 ...

 

[quant]

Credit Katz and Co for putting into overdrive an already successful Vail acquisition strategy.
Oh, wait.
Acquisition is what NYC investment bankers/corps. do.

(Correct me, someone, was it Katz & Co who moved the Vail business offices to Broomfield? [To lower the rank-in-file white collar costs, probably?])
(Why have those pesky employees actually live up in Vail or Eagle County? In Broomfield, you don't have to worry about their housing; or their skiing. Or community spirit.)

Vail has a lot of different operations and needs quality employees including decent management. There is a bigger pool of potential employees living in Denver and Boulder than in Vail. Not all of their 15,000 employees are going to work at ski areas or in retail stores. Katz was with Apollo Advisors and Citi before taking over Vail.