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LKLA

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Anyone have an update on the what has been going on with Vail/Stowe?
 

Muleski

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Just saw this. Curious about what kind of updates you might be thinking of.

Perhaps some local knowledge, like @epic, and @Josh Matta , would be helpful.

All I know is that the deal closed in June. Final price was about $41Mil, based on how the 2016-2017 season worked out. Original reported price was $50Mil.

They have their two top guys in place. The GM is very much a "ski guy" who has done all sorts of things related to hands on area operations. Ski school, lifts, grooming, snowmaking. My hunch is that he will be really visible and hands on. He has a sidekick from VR for the first year, I presume to integrate in into the Vail family. I've heard pretty optimistic things. Like they are not trying to turn the area in Vail NE.

Keep in mind all they bought was the ski area, and the area operations. No hotels, no real estate development. I have heard them stressing that this is ski area and skiing experience, as that is all they are doing.

And some point, we'll likely hear of a longer term vision and a lift plan. I think they need to get their feet wet, and it's not like the place had a lot of on mountain issues. I have heard it stated repeatedly that it's in significantly better shape than any of their other acquisitions, which is intetesting given that one was W-B.

The big challenges that they seem to have front and center, and top of mind, are crowds and traffic/parking. I grew up skiing there in the sixties, and on into the 90's, when we shifted gears. Even in early nineties, parking was not bad. Of course the parking lot at Spruce was huge then. Seemed to accommodate 50+ bus trips and everybody else.

I've been back. Last winter was real busy, relatively speaking. The mountain is tremendous, and it can suck up a lot of people. Sure, there can be liftlines.

I think the parking and traffic on weekends is going to be a problem. And it sounds like that's getting attention and thought. Parking needs to expand; maybe more local buses.

Now, with the New Epic Pass selling for roughly half of what the former Stowe season pass sold for, depending on what and when you bought/buy, I guess we'll have to see what unfolds.

Last winter was a good ski year. The year before was not, so obviously last year's skier visits were up. It was busy when we were there.

I think the big question is what the new pricing {passes and day tickets} will do. Presume Vail has a handle on that.

It terms of anything else: ski school, how they will interact with MMSC, I am clueless. Would like to know.

Stowe is an absolute icon. Can't see VR screwing this up, FWIW.

Any local info. would be much appreciated.
 
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KevinF

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As @Muleski mentioned, the deal is apparently finalized... The Epic pass site has been updated to include Stowe information.

The Stowe website indicates that there will still be "Stowe only" pass products; I'm not sure if those will be local / college passes or what the thinking is there. I haven't purchased my Stowe pass yet as I've been waiting to see what comes along. I don't really see skiing Colorado Vail-owned properties this coming season (or any season for that matter...).

I'm going to remain optimistic regarding changes at Stowe this season, but we'll see what happens. Fingers crossed. I intend to enjoy summer activities for another couple weeks (months...) before I really start worrying about what they're doing to my mountain. :cool:
 

Tricia

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Its extremely interesting to me that they bought the mountain and mountain operations, but not the lodging. I wonder about the retail operations. :huh:
Knowing how they work the VRR side of things I'm sure they'll figure out some way to implement their retail division into the mountain operations.

We really enjoyed the Beanery when we were there in April. I sincerely hop its not going to be replaced with Starbucks. If you recall, VR did status quo of moving their partners into the operations while moving the local roaster out. This only lasted a year before Park City Coffee Roaster returned to the mountain. Its possible that VR has learned from some of its growing pains at Park City.
For instance, I highly doubt that they'll try to trademark the name Stowe. ;)
 
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LKLA

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I heard that Vail Resorts bought, or is buying, the Matterhorn Bar & Grill.

Seems Vail passed on buying the real estate assets for various reasons (AIG not being overly motivated to sell) so they could use that money to buy various businesses around Stowe, build things on their own and purchase Smugglers' Notch.
 

KevinF

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I heard that Vail Resorts bought, or is buying, the Matterhorn Bar & Grill.

Seems Vail passed on buying the real estate assets for various reasons (AIG not being overly motivated to sell) so they could use that money to buy various businesses around Stowe, build things on their own and purchase Smugglers' Notch.

I googled Vail / Matterhorn and nothing even remotely relevant came up. I'd be surprised that they'd go for the Matterhorn, but what do I know.

This link regarding parking did show up; http://www.stowetoday.com/stowe_rep...cle_4bdd5fae-51e3-11e7-8634-a72909ff6955.html

I heard more parking griping than ever last year
 
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LKLA

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I googled Vail / Matterhorn and nothing even remotely relevant came up. I'd be surprised that they'd go for the Matterhorn, but what do I know.

This link regarding parking did show up; http://www.stowetoday.com/stowe_rep...cle_4bdd5fae-51e3-11e7-8634-a72909ff6955.html

I heard more parking griping than ever last year


That type of transaction - a private transaction and likely not very large - might not make it into the news, at least not until after the fact. But I can't confirm it either; I just heard the news.

Never had problems with parking, and we are not the first on the mountain by any stretch of the imagination. Only traffic related gripe would be regarding the pile-up on Mountain Road closer to town that often causes a 10-15 traffic jam. Nothing major though - can always use as an excuse to pull over and have a beer :beercheer:
 
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Erik Timmerman

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I haven't really heard anything. Nothing I'd repeat that's for sure. It is already a little weird to have it split into two companies though.
 

Muleski

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I haven't really heard anything. Nothing I'd repeat that's for sure. It is already a little weird to have it split into two companies though.

I would think the split would feel different for quite some time, as things sort out. And completely understand keeping quiet. Best of luck to the whole Stowe Community.

It would shock me if VR decided to buy up establishments on the Mountain Road, and down into the Village. I guess I could see a hospitality office of some sort on Main St.

This would be heresy, but if they bought the Matterhorn, I can see the whole thing coming down to create more satellite parking...if parking turns out to be the big issue. More parking near Toll House, etc. I think there are better parcels, though. Don't know how things like Act 250 work with parking lots....which I assume are "undeveloped"...sort of.

Heard a friend in the business make the comment that what VR bought in this deal was really Stowe's customer base. Interesting take.

Hope it all unfolds smoothly, and well!
 
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LKLA

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If Vail wanted to make money from season passes why would they cut the price in half? I think they will look to make money from day passes and more importantly from all sorts of ancillary businesses, be it on or off the mountain. I think that will be one of the biggest differences between AIG and Vail.

Vail already has plenty of people going to Vail, Beaver Creek, Whistler...not sure getting Stowe skiers to go out west was a primary focus of theirs. I think they bought Stowe because they can run it better than AIG and they can make money from it independent of Stowe skiers going West. Stowe also helps them diversify a bit, which is a good thing given the weather variability of late. And there is Smugglers' Notch next door, something no other resort on the east coast likely offered aside from Stowe.
 
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Philpug

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Vail is the master of the remote parking and shuttle buses, knowing what liitle I know about Stowe and the area, where that parking will be will indeed be interesting. I am interested in what the season pass sales will be this coming year compared to years in the past.
 

Philpug

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If Vail wanted to make money from season passes why would they cut the price in half? I think they will look to make money from day passes and more importantly from ancillary businesses, be it on or off the mountain. I think that will be one of the biggest differences between AIG and Vail.

Vail already has plenty of people going to Vail, Beaver Creek, Whistler...they bought Stowe because they can run it better than AIG and they can make money from it independent of Stowe skiers going West. Stowe also helps them diversify a bit, which is a good thing given the weather variability of late. And there is Smugglers' Notch next door, something no other resort on the east coast likely offered aside from Stowe.

Vail looses money on every season pass, but they make it up in volume..and Epic Burgers and Gatorade and lower than average pay scale. Vail wanted an east coast feeder area and Stowe was ripe for the picking and fit their model. Vail is not done. They will get the real estate and hotels and the will buy Smuggs. Vail is all about the most skiing acreage..connecting Stowe and Smugglers will give them the most skiing acreage in the east..another feather in their cap. A cap that has the most acrage in Canada-Whistler/Blackomb, US-Park City/Canyons, Colorado-Vail, their namesake.
 
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LKLA

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Vail is the master of the remote parking and shuttle buses, knowing what liitle I know about Stowe and the area, where that parking will be will indeed be interesting. I am interested in what the season pass sales will be this coming year compared to years in the past.

Yes they are but I think Stowe skiers (most east coast skiers for that matter) don't seem to care for shuttle parking. Seems like it's more of a west coast phenomenon. Perhaps it just takes getting used to!

I think the bigger issue is traffic on the road (Mountain Road). Regardless of where parking is located, everyone needs to get to the same road to leave.

Buying Smugglers would help alleviate that issue a fair amount as it would incentivize skiers driving from the other side to go to Smugs instead, thus easing traffic (and parking) on the Stowe side.

First world problems!
 

Marty McSly

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Vail is all about the most skiing acreage..connecting Stowe and Smugglers will give them the most skiing acreage in the east..another feather in their cap. A cap that has the most acrage in Canada-Whistler/Blackomb, US-Park City/Canyons, Colorado-Vail, their namesake.
And the biggest acreage in the Southern Hemisphere, Perisher.
:duck:
 

Marty McSly

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I have heard it stated repeatedly that it's in significantly better shape than any of their other acquisitions, which is intetesting given that one was W-B.
They bought Perisher, in Australia, a couple of years ago. That's more probably what they are referring to, but it wouldn't have been newsworthy in the US.

The previous owners put together a resort master plan something like 15 years ago. The only major thing in the plan that's been done is one new lift. Lots of other new lifts and a major village redevelopment are still not even on the radar.

Perisher is no penny-ante operation. At around 10,500 skiable acres and 47 lifts it's the biggest resort by area in the southern hemisphere, and crazily crowded at weekends during our season. Vail have definitely bought a customer base there. Lots of takers down under for northern hemisphere snow holidays.
 

Jim Kenney

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at_nyc

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Jim, I didn't find Northstar in your article for some reason...
 
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fatbob

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Yes they are but I think Stowe skiers (most east coast skiers for that matter) don't seem to care for shuttle parking. Seems like it's more of a west coast phenomenon. Perhaps it just takes getting used to!


First world problems!

No one cares for shuttle parking unless you happen to live or stay right on the shuttle route where it saves you a drive. The point is when it gets to "you can park in your old spot for $30-50 or park n ride our shuttle for free" what decision do make? And as Beaver Creek has seen then make that remote parking pay parking. I'm only pleased that Vail seem to have been less money grubbing so far in Tahoe.
 

Tony

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@Jim Kenney "Great write-ups on the Vail resorts. If you let me know the next time you will be at Kirkwood or other Vail Tahoe resorts and I would be happy to show you around. In your picture titled 'Wagon Wheel Bowl' (one of my favorite areas, especially when The Wall chair is not open and you have to hike along the Cornice to get to the corner), the big missing tooth is the top of the Notch Chute. It almost always requires skis off down-climb, but as long as the down-climb is not icy, it is worth it.

A minor correction is that I think your picture titled 'Cornice Bowl' is really Palisades Bowl (another favorite area where I've had multiple untracked powder laps, especially during the week.)

Jim, I didn't find Northstar in your article for some reason...
In the first couple of paragraphs of the first article Jim wrote and linked, he does not include Northstar in the list of Vail ski areas he has visited.

Vail looses money on every season pass
Besides calling bad grammar (or spelling), I call BS.
 
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Philpug

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Besides calling bad grammar (or spelling), I call BS.
You took it out of context because I also said they make it up in volume which means they DO make a profit on them. Sorry for the (common) loose/lose mix up.
 
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