To Rotobrush or not to Rotobrush?

[Yo Momma]

http://www.tognar.com/rotobrushes/

Grey Nylon (Universal Brush) w/ the Toko or Red Creek handle w/ cover............ that stuff flies everywhere w/o the cover........... = Life Changing

 

[Max Capacity]

After having Toko rotobrushes for almost 20 years now, got them through the race program in 1998. I have begun to just scrap the wax off and ski them. I'm not a racer, but people have a hard time skiing as fast as I do. I really don't see much of a difference.

May be on the real cold day's -0F I'll use the horse hair brush but normally now, I tune the edges, use Dominator Hyper-zoom, scrap and ski.

 

[Yo Momma]

^^^ @Max Capacity look up the No scraping technique here on Philpug............. you'll never go back to scraping again............ at least I didn't. Once I found this I was totally done w/ that messy procedure! .......... and it's easy peasey! No more yelling at you for the mess in the Basement/Garage!

 

[Max Capacity]

Tried to search and also tried No scraping on google. Couldn't find that thread.

I can get the point of where your going. I have been thinking about just skiing them after waxing. I have learned how to get the surface waxed without using to much wax. I think its just a matter of time before I got around to not even scraping.

I have checked my skis after a run or two and notice they were nice and smooth without brushing. I have even noticed there is still some wax left at the end of the day if the snow is nice.

 

[textrovert]

Great timely thread. I've been using hand brushes and things have been slowly getting out of hand
This season, the number of skis I was waxing every time got me thinking about rotobrush upgrade for next season.

I have these- http://www.racewax.com/racewax-ski-wax-brush-kit-snowboard-set-of-three-nylon-horsehair-brass/

Current hand brush based waxing routine:

1. Brass brush (10mm)
2. Hot-wax, scrape, let sit overnight
3. Plexi scrape
4. Nylon brush (10mm)
5. Soft Horsehair brush (8mm)

Looking at the rotobrush sequence. The brass seems to be (mostly) consistently used like how I use my hand brass brush (pre-wax base prep). But for the other two- I am getting mixed inputs for order. Some seem to be using horsehair first and then nylon. Others vice versa. I'm guessing it has to do with actual relative stiffness of the brushes being used (which varies by make).

Putting together a comparison below of what I've seen so far-


SVST rotobrush options:

• Nylon - 3mm, 7mm, 10mm -- here I am assuming the longer it is, the softer it gets. The 7mm being the "all-purpose" one.
• Horsehair - 6mm
• Brass - 6mm

Would a possible order with SVST be - brass 6mm, horsehair 6mm, nylon 7mm?
@PeterMN suggested just get one 7mm Nylon rotobrush and keep the hand brush steps before (brass) and after (soft horsehair).

Swix rotobrush options:

• Steel (pre-wax/base prep)
• Horsehair (1st brush)
• Blue Nylon (2nd brush)

Swix order seems to be pretty clear.

Toko rotobusion options:

• Brass (10mm, pre-wax/base prep)
• Horsehair (6mm, hard/medium wax)
• Grey Nylon (4mm, hard/medium wax or all-purpose)
• Black Nylon (10mm, soft wax removal or final base polish)

In the Toko sequence, sounds like Grey Nylon or Horsehair would be equivalent for 1st polish (both not being needed)... with Black Nylon as optional 2nd polish.
@Yo Momma suggested just Grey Nylon and done, I think.

Sidecut rotobrush option:

• Brass (11mm, pre-wax/base prep)
• Horehair (7mm, 1st brush)
• Nylon (7mm (2nd brush)

As @KingGrump and @Drahtguy Kevin mentioned, and they have a kit that includes everything you need- http://www.sidecut.com/product/RB-150.html


Super-budget options:

• Greatest Of All Time purple as suggested by @Jersey Skier & @Monique

Thanks!

ETA: Got a bit carried away with the edits and rotobrush makes there...

 

[textrovert]

Tried to search and also tried No scraping on google. Couldn't find that thread.

@Max Capacity Phil described it early on in this thread-
https://forum.pugski.com/threads/hot-waxing-approach.3210/

 

[Xela]

@textrovert, are you a serious racer? If not, you probably need only a horse hair or aggressive nylon. In my opinion, a hand brass brush pre-wax works fine. The reason for going roto is that post-scrape, there's still a lot of wax to brush out of the texture and it takes a lot of energy. I sometimes finish with a softer hand brush.

Full disclosure: I also own a steel roto-brush for serious base work. This is a once-per-season (or less) type of thing.

 

[textrovert]

I am trending to the following-

• Swix handle/shield w/ removable axle for easy brush swap ($88.99)
• Toko Brass - prewax base prep ($99.99)
• Swix Horsehair - 1st ($49.99)
• Swix Blue Nylon - 2nd ($49.99)

Likely without the brass roto to start with, keeping budget down a bit.

 

[textrovert]

@Xela I'm not a racer, but my daughter is (U16 this season and the next). However, I will probably not get the brass roto to start off with, for the exact reason you suggested. Thanks.

 

[trailtrimmer]

It'll change your life. All you need is the spindle and a horse-hair. When I was bargain shopping, the Red Creek spindle and the Toko brush were the cheapest "real deal" options.

This is indeed the best way to start, I brass brush by hand then horse roto. I have a nylon roto brush as well, but I never seem to use it. I can do skis nearly twice as fast now.

The purple brush looks cool for the money, but without a handle on the other side, you won't be getting even pressure.

 

[Philpug]

After having Toko rotobrushes for almost 20 years now, got them through the race program in 1998. I have begun to just scrap the wax off and ski them. I'm not a racer, but people have a hard time skiing as fast as I do. I really don't see much of a difference.

May be on the real cold day's -0F I'll use the horse hair brush but normally now, I tune the edges, use Dominator Hyper-zoom, scrap and ski.

When you have a yellow helmet, buffing just doesn't seem as important.

 

[Chris Walker]

When you have a yellow helmet, buffing just doesn't seem as important.

In the grand scheme of things, it's probably not important for me either. Any advantage I get through perfectly buffed bases will be eaten away by my crappy turns very quickly. But I take base prep seriously for a couple of reasons. It takes away my built in excuse and lets me concentrate on getting better.

Also, in the first race I entered, I finished miles behind the contenders and in 35th place. Basically I was only ahead of some, but not all, of the septuagenarians with arthritic knees. But I lost to the 34th place finisher by a measly one hundredth of a second! So maybe a fast-running ski won't find me the 15 seconds I need to compete for a podium, but it might find me an extra hundredth or two here and there. Thirty-fourth place isn't much, but it's better than 35th.

 

[PeterMN]

Great timely thread. I've been using hand brushes and things have been slowly getting out of hand
This season, the number of skis I was waxing every time got me thinking about rotobrush upgrade for next season.

I have these- http://www.racewax.com/racewax-ski-wax-brush-kit-snowboard-set-of-three-nylon-horsehair-brass/

Current hand brush based waxing routine:

1. Brass brush (10mm)
2. Hot-wax, scrape, let sit overnight
3. Plexi scrape
4. Nylon brush (10mm)
5. Soft Horsehair brush (8mm)

Looking at the rotobrush sequence. The brass seems to be (mostly) consistently used like how I use my hand brass brush (pre-wax base prep). But for the other two- I am getting mixed inputs for order. Some seem to be using horsehair first and then nylon. Others vice versa. I'm guessing it has to do with actual relative stiffness of the brushes being used (which varies by make).

Putting together a comparison below of what I've seen so far-


SVST rotobrush options:

• Nylon - 3mm, 7mm, 10mm -- here I am assuming the longer it is, the softer it gets. The 7mm being the "all-purpose" one.
• Horsehair - 6mm
• Brass - 6mm

Would a possible order with SVST be - brass 6mm, horsehair 6mm, nylon 7mm?
@PeterMN suggested just get one 7mm Nylon rotobrush and keep the hand brush steps before (brass) and after (soft horsehair).

Textro...

I think that you would be happy with (1) 6-7 mm nylon or horsehair brush to start. Try using the roto in place of your step #4 above, I would bet that you will like the results.

I have always been a fan of SVST, my rotobrush is built well, however the SVST roto system is not interchangeable with the other systems such as Swix or Toko etc... which I can see as a negative.

Good Luck!

 

[ScotsSkier]

I wouldn't bother with the brass, I rarely use it. I prefer the hard (short bristle) nylon for the initial pre-wax prep.

 

[textrovert]

@PeterMN - I do like the build of SVST (I have their 3deg. side bevel guide that is very solid). The option for 150mm wide is nice too for those fatter skis.
I also like the KISS recommendation that most are making here- skip the brass pre-wax roto, use just a single post-wax roto. multi-brush switching and compatibility also not an issue at that point. I like it!

 

[Sibhusky]

I have two. Wouldn't use a metal roto, of be afraid of what my results would be. This horse hair vs nylon question? Use the stiffer one first, then the softer one. If you can't tell the difference, then just use one. All my brushes you can definitely tell the difference.

 

[ScotsSkier]

I normally use 2 brushes post scraping on my race skis, first the horse hair, then the soft nylon. I have them both on a QR six double shaft. On the speed skis I will also follow up with a few special hand brushes

 

[hbear]

No need for brass as suggested above, at least not in roto version. Hand brush is plenty.

Short nylon (stiff) and soft nylon are more than fine (can sub the horsehair for short nylon if that is your preference).

Always better to start with fewer and add in if you need....

 

[Monique]

The purple brush looks cool for the money, but without a handle on the other side, you won't be getting even pressure.

This is true.

 

[Jacques]

So for the past 4-5 years I've been getting more and more serious about tuning and waxing. I pretty much never ski without first hot waxing and brushing out my skis. I was considering going the rotobrush route, having found what looks like a decent starter kit for around $200. I was just wondering from people who have done it how they feel about the investment. I do get kind of tired of all the hand brushing when I'm doing like 3 or more pairs, but honestly most of the time it's just one pair and it's not really too big of a deal.

So, what's the verdict, roto-people? Will it change my life? Or would I be better off finding something better to spend my $200 on?

You don't need rotos. Most that think they do is because they are not scraping correctly to start with.

Here is the way to do it in this video.