The outside ski to outside ski drill.

[Erik Timmerman]

@Mike King I would agree that much of the extension is coming from the knee joint, but there is also some in the ankle so that there is a place to flex to as I move from the shaping phase into the completion phase, but I feel it is more a sensation of allowing the leg to extend then pushing into extension as I am allowing the ski to move along a longer path then the body instead of a sensation of pushing the body into the turn. One of my mantras has become, "tight core, loose legs..."

I guess you must be doing the drill faster than Jonathan. I don't think he can let his BOS and COM diverge very much at that pace.

 

[Nate Gardner]

No I ski it at a pretty similar speed. As I said, it is a sensation (something I feel) more then it is a visual.

 

[Dwight]

So if we did just one ski, would that help or train something different?

 

[Nate Gardner]

It would add active initiation with the inside leg every other turn and lose active direction of pressure to the outside ski on those same turns.
I love one ski skiing, although prefer to do it with more shaping and less speed as I feel it requires more skill refinement, but I don't think it is a replacement for the outside ski to outside ski drill.

 

[Josh Matta]

The people in the video are struggling to do that task IE ski on one ski.

 

[1chris5]

So when doing outside ski drill and javelin ( I like practicing javelin) should I drag my pole tips or does that just make it easier to perform drills?

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I think drag is fine, just don't lean on it.

 

[Ross McGuinness]

Kind of reminds me of a drill I've seen somewhere else, the phantom move or something

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Yes, I'm sure that nobody like, say, Hannes Schneider had ever thought of it before.

 

[razie]

Tip down makes more sense - it doesn't put you as forward as to not consider yourself centered anymore and when you're centered there, you're actually back.

That said, instead of ramp or thinking tip down tip up, why not thing push foot forward, pull back - to level it? Maybe that works better?

good lucjk

 

[Erik Timmerman]

OK Josh, here is my question. What does it tell you that you have to change your binding setup in order to do this drill? What does it mean that your skiing becomes "shit" when you are in a position when you can do this drill? It must be telling you something.

 

[Josh Matta]

basically if I use as much retractions as I like to use in bumps and tree and in some short turns on groomed snow I feel like I fall back no matter how much I crush my boot.

my boot also feel really stiff with the toes 2 mm higher.

 

[Mike King]

Josh, it sounds to me as if you are using the wrong body mechanics in the drill. What Jonathan was demonstrating is a tipping and pressure drill. You've got to roll the ski to engage the new edge then pressure the tip to shorten its turning radius. It doesn't require crushing the front of the boot to make it work. If you are crushing the front of the boot while moving aft (evidenced by the tip of the lifted ski being higher than the tail in relation to the slope) it suggests that you knee and ankle are more flexed more than your hip. Try standing up and over the ski.

Mike

 

[Josh Matta]

yeah I am not someone who crushes the front the boot ever. I think you miss read what I said.

I ccan do this drill with my boot lifted 2mm in the toes, but at that position I am unable to ski bumps and tree effectively. Never said I was crushing the boot during the drill.....I said no amount of crushing my boots with my toes lifted 2mm than normal will let me skis 3d terrain as well and I like.


I have yet to see a demo of this done with out pole drag and with the entire inside ski lifted. I am also not convinced on lifting the entire ski is better in any way. The run around answer given by Jonathan was kind of what I was expecting. I still contend this drill done with the entire ski lifted is going after a look and not anything useful.

Heck I find one footed skiing with no poles and only one ski on my foot easier to do than this drill. riddle me that? When I one footed skiing with one ski on and no pole my only point of contact is my ski, not my "lifted" ski, and not my poles.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Where does he give you a "run around" answer? I didn't see one in the Youtube comments. Is there something else I haven't seen?

 

[Superbman]

You know, HH has recently started advocating raising the ski tip
First (rather than tail)..It adds a neat element to his version of outside ski to outside ski drill. It's harder to do, but so far I've found it also aids staying centered (previously, I always had the same struggles Josh describes...but of course, I'm not half the skier Josh is):

 

[Josh Matta]

If the weather allows today, I plan to get some video but rain my prevent camera from coming out...

Has anyone ever considered that for some people "center" my be tip down? I have always looked at this drill as foot to foot balance drill first, and as rotational balance drill second......

Do you have video of HH doing this with the tip up?

 

[Superbman]

Josh,

He does a whole bit on it in his blogspot.

http://harbskisysems.blogspot.com/

Scroll down to around January 14th (just below the video of him skiing on new knees).. There's photos and discussion. There maybe a video somewhere as well (he does post a ton of videos after all)-someone closer to this material can probably steer you in the right direction.

 

[Mike King]

Josh, the effect of lifting the toe of the boot is to move you forward. It sounds like that solves the fore/aft problem in the drill, but you still try to move even further forward in skiing 3d terrain. But to be centered, or even neutral in that terrain with the lift in, you need to be moving aft, not forward (e.g. don't crush the front of the boot).

Does that make sense?

Mike

 

[Living Proof]

From the same HH Blog that @Superbman referenced, is a HH explains his thinking of the benefit of tip-lifting for his students. To some extent, one needs to be familiar with the PMTS dictionary and the concepts of flexing to release, counter balance and counter acting and tipping the new inside ski through out the finishing of the turn.

Tip ski lift at the release!

I have never been anti-tip lift, I always saw, or noted that I had it in my skiing, I even wrote about it in 2007.

I started using tip lift for intermediates when I saw too much focus on just lift the back of the ski. Which accomplishes little. I began by telling students the point of lifting was to get a release, but most were not tipping after they lifted the ski. The whole idea of lifting is to get that ski to the LTE.

So I began to tell our students to keep the ski level rather than just lifting the tail. In doing the exercise of keeping the ski level, from a stationary rehearsal, I had them compare the difference in the actions of the leg muscles, between just lifting the tail and lifting the tip.

It became obvious even in a stationary exercise for this comparison, that lifting the tip keeps the ski closer to the ground and it also engaged important hip and torso muscles that helped set up CA and CB, which lifting the tail did not. I began to have the group use just lifting the tip at the release. Low and behold, most of their extension went away, and inside ski lead was reduced. Better overall balance and transfer increased. SO I stayed with it.


Biomechanically speaking, the action helps to close the ankle, or Dorsi-flexes the foot, lifts the foot. The tibialis anterior, is the main lifting muscle used to lift the foot, which also helps to invert the foot. In turn, higher in the kinetic chain it engages the hip flexor, (tensor fascia latæ), You can also use it at Starbuck to order a special Lattee, it really confuses the hell out of them.