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The need for term definitions?

McEl

Putting on skis
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Re: Glossary.

In post #29 Tricia said,

“How do we define terms and movements on a site like this so that the average lay person (not just the instructors) get a grasp on what's being said? …”

In post #30 LF said,

“Some people may assume that checking a glossary before posting implies they don't know what they are talking about.

If someone, a moderator for instance, or just a frequent reader, were to take up the task of reminding everyone of the glossary definition for terms that might be at the core of unnecessary disagreements, that person might be seen as an unwelcome nag bordering on arrogant.

Disclaimer: I'd like to see an in-depth glossary on this site, and see people refer to it consistently. I just don't have much hope that people would do it.”
*****************************

To that end and as a start of an in-depth glossary on this site, Mr. Barnes’ can be found at

https://forum.pugski.com/threads/glossary-of-skiing-terms.4753/.

Whether posters can/will agree on the definitions or choose to refer to them, are separate questions.

Most of the images in the Barnes (PugSki) Glossary have been lost, and replacing them is the next task – a ‘summer project’. Philpug may be able to restore two of them – angulation/inclination and ‘perfect turn’ illustrations - that were provide to him by PM, by transfer from another PUG thread.

If other PUG contributors have any of the missing images, or adequate substitutes, please send a PM to Philpug with the link for his ‘get around to it’ list of things to do later this summer.

…..a worthwhile summer project for all……

McEl

Note - Other glossaries can be added. There are several, some available by free electronic transfer. The authors of other glossaries should consider posting them, after discussing it with P & T.

Comparisons among them can be valuable learning exercises.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Tricia

Tricia

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@McEl We are working with Bob to have a specific tab for his encyclopedia. I also have the PDF Version.
When it does go live it will be at Bob's hadn't and with his images/videos
 

Monique

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If I use them with students (and I do sometimes) I make it clear what I mean by the term.

Well. You *think* you've made it clear. It's the whole Wittgenstein thing - you don't actually know you're talking past each other until the other person does something you didn't expect.
 

Zentune

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Well. You *think* you've made it clear. It's the whole Wittgenstein thing - you don't actually know you're talking past each other until the other person does something you didn't expect.

Very true! Which is why it is VERY important to frequently "check for understanding"....if they don't get it, it can be re-worded, re-demoed, etc...

zenny
 
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TS
Tricia

Tricia

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I recall spending a winter clinicing like crazy and had one specific instructor working with me on a particular thing I was supposed to "feel" when I did "that" thing correctly.
The problem for me was, he kept telling me to do the same thing and wasn't getting results from me, while others in our clinic group seemed to be getting it. Frustrated, I reached out to another clinic leader and questioned whether or not I should just give up. He casually said, "lets just ski" After making a run or two, he said, "let me just suggest that you do this. Pressure the tongue of your boot at 10:00 when you want to turn left and 2:00 when you want to turn right".
I did it and felt something, but not sure what. Then he suggested that I pressure the boot at 12:00 for one boot sole length (no more/no less) while in the middle of the turn.
AH HA!!!!

I needed the break down and the method to get there in order to feel it. Sometimes we need to mix it up and take input from someone else who can say it differently if we want that Ah Ha moment.

What worked for others didn't click with me, and what worked for me may not have clicked with others.

As Zen said, the instructor has to check for understanding, but that's not all. The instructor also has to check for alternate communication methods if the understanding isn't there. Not all instructors have that knack.
 
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Zentune

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As Zen said, the instructor has to check for understanding, but that's not all. The instructor also has to check for alternate communication methods if the understanding isn't there. Not all instructors have that knack.

Bingo!

zenny
 

karlo

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Okay, but who's going to determine whether using the words, still, quiet or disciplined are the right words

Near the beginning of this past season, I had my annual checkup. Signed up with a PSIA examiner. He spoke of the inside foot being the driver. I asked what he means by driver. His reply was that the inside foot drives. This went on about 2/3's up the lift until I gave up and pointed out he was using the same word, in different sentences, to define what he meant. Now, that's in a conversation. In writing, in a forum, very very tough.
 

karlo

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"here's my experience with this thing" and "here are my thoughts on this thing"

Here are my thoughts on this thing.

Know how one can auto-add a signature line in an email? Maybe Pugski can have participants, when posting, select one of these to appear as their first sentence, as a reminder that this is what it's about. Particularly in the Ski School forum.

And, you can't post unless you select one of the choices!
 
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Thread Starter
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Tricia

Tricia

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Okay, but who's going to determine whether using the words, still, quiet or disciplined are the right words to get across to one specific person, or are we talking to the wider audience of readers?
Near the beginning of this past season, I had my annual checkup. Signed up with a PSIA examiner. He spoke of the inside foot being the driver. I asked what he means by driver. His reply was that the inside foot drives. This went on about 2/3's up the lift until I gave up and pointed out he was using the same word, in different sentences, to define what he meant. Now, that's in a conversation. In writing, in a forum, very very tough.
That was one instructor's error in explaining it.

The good news is, if you said that same thing here, there are (at least) 1/2 dozen other instructors who would have jumped in to explain what he meant.

If you came in here and said, "I don't understand what you meant about quiet upper body", you'd get several responses about what that means.
 

Philpug

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@Tricia were listening to a radio show and there was a combatant host who got into a heated debate with a former basketball great (Rick Barry) about disecting a players performance in the game and it came down to Barry saying "You cannot understand, because you never played the game". That led into a discussion about understanding a sport if you never played it but then it changes to talk about great coaches like a Bill Bleichek who although is arguably the best football coach ever played a down in the NFL (I don't think, cannot find to confirm). They talked about how Magic Johnson was an great player but not a good head coach. I will mentions a Sparky Anderson, who had a cup of coffee in the Majors but a great coach, A Charlie Lau who taught some of the best hitters in baseball like George Brett how to become the best hitter on the planet in the 1970's. What is the trend here? Just because you are great, does not mean you can teach. What these talking heads broke it down to, the many best coaches in sports are that way because they did not have the natural talent to be good, they had to think about it, work hard at it learn it, they didn't have the natural talent to become world class. I am not saying that it is the same in every case but it is very common trend.
 
Thread Starter
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Tricia

Tricia

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Just stumbled upon this thread, started the first few days this site was live.
Why does terminology matter?
Maybe we should merge the two threads.
 

ScotsSkier

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I recall spending a winter clinicing like crazy and had one specific instructor working with me on a particular thing I was supposed to "feel" when I did "that" thing correctly.
The problem for me was, he kept telling me to do the same thing and wasn't getting results from me, while others in our clinic group seemed to be getting it. Frustrated, I reached out to another clinic leader and questioned whether or not I should just give up. He casually said, "lets just ski" After making a run or two, he said, "let me just suggest that you do this. Pressure the tongue of your boot at 10:00 when you want to turn left and 2:00 when you want to turn right".
I did it and felt something, but not sure what. Then he suggested that I pressure the boot at 12:00 for one boot sole length (no more/no less) while in the middle of the turn.
AH HA!!!!

I needed the break down and the method to get there in order to feel it. Sometimes we need to mix it up and take input from someone else who can say it differently if we want that Ah Ha moment.

What worked for others didn't click with me, and what worked for me may not have clicked with others.

As Zen said, the instructor has to check for understanding, but that's not all. The instructor also has to check for alternate communication methods if the understanding isn't there. Not all instructors have that knack.

Also got to remember that some people will just not feel it even when it is happening......
 

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