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KevinF

Gathermeister-New England
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Is the infinity move a MOVE?

I view it more of a consequence of everything else working right, which would require a lot of words to describe here online.
It's something I try to be aware of through proprioception.
Fine-tuning one's awareness of the whereabouts of body's center of mass and the feet is required in order to sense it happening.

But an action, a movement? Not in my worldview.

Interesting question, but to me, the infinity move is something I actively do. To me, the start of the next turn is a "consequence of everything else working right".

But I am (trying to) actively drive that outside ski around while opening the ankle a bit to allow the COM and the skis to cross paths. If I didn't do something,my ankle would remain closed. I could still release the edges so that I'd be in neutral (laterally speaking), but I wouldn't be in a position to allow the "x move" to occur... And without an X-move, I've learned that the next turn is gonna suck.

With that said, I'm looking out the window and it's snowing, so it's time to stop typing and time to go skiing. :thumb:
 

VickieH

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Release old outside ski edge
@David Chaus - Thanks for saying that. There is one word I have come to associate with @Bob Barnes ... GO. In any discussion he's part of, I always look for what Bob wants me TO DO. "Release old outside ski edge" feels like a STOP doing something. And I just now realized why this release has confounded me.

It's like holding a ball in my hand. I don't know how to "release ball". I do know how to "extend fingers and thumb" or "flatten hand", which results in my releasing the ball.

Back to topic, but thanks for triggering that awareness.
 

Jerez

Skiing the powder
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@Bob Barnes what an interesting story! We could have a great conversation about this, but I don't want to hijack an important subject.

Suffice it for now to say that I studied at the Bolshoi in the Soviet Era and know about rigid perfection. Still don't think that using a strict PSIA training model would have brought your dancer to flow any better. Her issue was more likely being rusty at improv after years of being choreographed. She needed even more play.
 

LiquidFeet

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Interesting question, but to me, the infinity move is something I actively do. To me, the start of the next turn is a "consequence of everything else working right".

But I am (trying to) actively drive that outside ski around while opening the ankle a bit to allow the COM and the skis to cross paths. If I didn't do something,my ankle would remain closed. I could still release the edges so that I'd be in neutral (laterally speaking), but I wouldn't be in a position to allow the "x move" to occur... And without an X-move, I've learned that the next turn is gonna suck.
:thumb:

I think we actually agree. To get the body to move across the skis downhill, body getting downhill before feet, several things have to happen. You mention opening the ankle, driving the outside ski around, and indirectly you refer to releasing the edges. All these are things certainly can happen to get the infinity thing going on.

But they are not a single move. They are a bunch of moves, guided by intention with some focus, probably very different in its verbal expression for different folks. Calling the Infinity-Move a "move" may mislead some people who think there's a single movement involved that they are not yet doing, a mystery move that makes the "X" happen. If they think this because of the word "move," then they may jump to the conclusion that they should do something very active that will move the body downhill across the skis. As Bob has said many times, a single movement that makes the sideways figure eight happen is not what he is describing.

I'm pointing that out by objecting to the implications of the word "move." I fully agree that we do numerous things to make it happen. Continuing to call it a move is fine, as long as some explanation is included to avoid people getting the idea that there's this magic movement they need to do.
 

bud heishman

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Did you mean descent intent?

Nope! Detent position as in a return to center or neutral, like a back hoe bucket has a detent position where the operator knows the bucket is level. The Centerline is my reference turn I move from left or right as my tactics change or situation demands. My intent is to keep my skis moving forward as much as possible using my line to control my descent.
 

bud heishman

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Liquidfeet, I think the Bob's graphics illustrate what we need to focus on is not so much specific body parts to move here or there but the overall holistic awareness of our center of mass and how it moves down the hill. Kind of a Tai Chi thing of tuning into our belly button (close proximity) and it's path. Focusing on the flow of this tiny ball where our base of support releases it from the inside of one arc to the inside of another. Release, establish platform, Redirect, Release, establish platform, Redirect, Release......in a sinuous flow down the mountain. We are simply managing this ball's path on it's intended course. We must allow it to happen, it can't be forced!
 

bud heishman

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LL


Establish platform - Redirect - Release- repeat......
 

Smear

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Release, establish platform, Redirect, Release, establish platform, Redirect, Release

My brain just went whaaaaat, when quickly skimming through that.

Until it went into dooohh mode :doh: , when I realized that is was the Center of mass that was redirected and not the skis....
 

James

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My brain just went whaaaaat, when quickly skimming through that.

Until it went into dooohh mode :doh: , when I realized that is was the Center of mass that was redirected and not the skis....
I don't get it. In a turn everything is redirected. The feet/skis travel a longer path so really they're redirected more.
 

Smear

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What can I say, it made perfect sense in my head. Redirection of skis to me make me think of something else than sending them on a curved path. More like: establish platform, jump, redirect:huh:

 

Drahtguy Kevin

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@Yo Momma, have you seen any of @Bob Barnes videos? He has several that are excellent. My favorite is "Crudology." The footage of Dan Egan skiing refrozen chicken heads is incredible.

For those "Crudology" virgins:
https://vimeo.com/bobbarnes/crudology

Edit to add many of the skiers in that video are members here.
 
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Yo Momma

Making fresh tracks
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I love this video, posted by @peterm in the "favorite videos" thread. (Sorry, i will post later)
Here ya go!.....Thanks @peterm....... Yes this is a great tip! Ha ha actually met him hiking one of the peaks in CO. We were the "Locals" at the time and he passed us going up.......... Nobody did that, and lived to tell about it.......... the wounded usually left sucking o2 somewhere on the ridge after we handed them their legs in a bag.......... not this guy.......... Oh shit! That's Jonny Moseley.....no wonder he can hike so fast and actually hold a steady conversation (the time tested method for lung capacity analysis by your buds) !...... a quick Hi and then back to sucking O2!
 
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Mendieta

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Here ya go!.....Thanks @peterm....... Yes this is a great tip! Ha ha actually met him hiking one of the peaks in CO. We were the "Locals" at the time and he passed us going up.......... Nobody did that, and lived to tell about it.......... the wounded usually left sucking o2 somewhere on the ridge after we handed them their legs in a bag.......... not this guy.......... Oh shit! That's Jonny Moseley.....no wonder he can hike so fast and actually hold a steady conversation (the time tested method for lung capacity analysis by your buds) !...... a quick Hi and then back to sucking O2!

Thank you! I was struggling with my phone trying to post the right video :doh:. As I see Moseley do moguls, I think there is a lot in common with the 'Infinity" move. He definitely has a beautiful flow where his skis are traveling a lot further than the COM. Of course, this is Moseley we are talking about. BTW, lovely anecdote, thanks for sharing!
 

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
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yeah mosley's teaching there is not infinity move. In fact see no reason why jumping from the top of the mogul would EVER be a good idea unless you plan on landing on the transition of another bump, but he landing right in the upslope of the next bump.

a couple thoughts.

Competion mogul skiing is not good skiing. It is skiing that is dictated by a set up rules based on looks, not ski performance or physics.

this is a much better representation of the infinity move in the bumps.


Heck I am showing more Infinity move than Mosley in this bumpy woods run. but not every turn, because in some turns its not appropriate.


I will go on to say that most "famous" coaches are usually clueless about what is actually going on. Why would they have to know any thing, there name alone will bring people to their camps. Over some unknown that actually knows what is a going on and can coach it.
 

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