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Monique

bounceswoosh
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Colorado
Ummm...not exactly. The opposite, and very strongly - the same exact force will cause a larger deflection of the ski. The amount of deflection increases as the cube of the ski width (if everything else is kept the same).

Yeah, now that I think about it, that makes sense. So - we'll see how the V-Rock treats me in crud. I think the weight of those heavier skis has a lot to do with why they're so smooth in that stuff. But I'm getting better at charging down the hill rather than evading across it, so I might not need the ski to compensate as much for my skiing in that scenario.

Also, I'd thought of stiffness (or some unknown potion), as causing the ability to charge or handle crud/chop in a powder ski, rather than ski width. My Super 7s are wonderful at pure float and handling, but a lot of work once the resort turns to chop and crud after a few hours. Too floppy maybe. And narrower Rossi Sickles 111 are true crud busters, but poor floaters. Anyhow, .....

I think that's true, but I've always thought it's torsional stiffness, not lengthwise stiffness. @cantunamunch can now correct me :)

By "show a lot of Base" or not, with Phil and other folks at Breck who don't, do you mean ski at a high enough edge angle to show base? Wasn't sure. I'm sometimes slow. But I agree with you about different skiing styles and skiing cultures, neither worse or better. Just different. Maybe like different accents in different regions.

Showing a lot of base has two parts to it: 1 high enough edge angles 2 achieving them early in the turn and holding them for a good portion of the turn.

I was thinking edge angles, but @cantunamunch 's second point makes sense, too. And as I think about it, I wonder if the local Breck preference for fat skis also plays into not typically seeing high edge angles - they're more work on fat skis.

But #2 also goes into it - most of my skiing is steeps and trees, and for the most part, people aren't trying to hold high edge angles for a large part of the turn, because that means you're accelerating. This is a point Jenn made in a discussion about carving - it's not that you shouldn't own it, but it's not always the right tool - and for the runs I ski, often the wrong tool. And when I talk about Breck preference, I'm talking about the self-selected group of people that I ski with and the instructors who have influenced me ... of course there are people there with other ideas.

Isn't a Fat-ypus ski one of the two that Silverton regularly carries for its riders? I've forgotten, but seems like.

That would be very cool. I don't remember - I've always brought my own skis. I know one of the brands is K2.

Your friend Jenn I might have briefly met. She was a Liberty rep on Variant 113 skis, and we skied a few runs and road up on the lift a few times together. At one point, I fell on a groomer on a drop off I didn't see, and she stopped and waited for me. I'm an old guy with a white beard, but it was fun skiing with her, if that's the lady.

Quite possibly. I normally see her in ski school uniform, so I'm having trouble picturing her civvies - oh, but, if you saw her this season, she has a light blue helmet. In the past she had a green K2 helmet. If you ever get a chance to take a lesson with her ... I can't recommend it enough. And yeah, she's very nice about waiting and being patient with people. I guess you'd have to be, as an instructor.

I own a couple Skilogik's, and like them a lot. Hopefully, there will be somewhere to demo the new Bomber and Blossom skis next year.

They're so beautiful, too - although Liberty has some skis that have a similar look this season. I rode a lift this season with a ski patroller who swore by her Skilogiks for daily hard use by patrol. She'd had them for a couple of years. I was surprised; several years ago, they didn't have a good reputation for durability. But that may have changed.
 

ski otter 2

Making fresh tracks
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Front Range, Colorado
I forgot to mention I ran into your friend on her Variants early this season, at Loveland. I vaguely recall her saying she normally skied elsewhere.

K2 Hellbents were the other ski Silverton carried, I believe, at least at one point.

For me, it's often hard to tell how a ski will handle just from eyeballing or flexing it. Lots of variables, design integration, as @cantunamunch mentioned. For instance, reading the Blistergear review of the Ones, Jonathan starts by discussing how the One seems to have a straighter 5-point shape that normally goes with good crudbusting, rather than a more usual 5-point shape that often goes with floppy in crud. This was beyond me, mostly, though I noticed my K2 Pettitors 120 have a shape more like the One, albeit fatter. And they both float and crudbust. (but also carve or slarve at will).

But the Pettitors are fairly heavy, relative to the V Rocks/I Rocks/Katanas, at least.

In my experience, good crudbusters are much less work, and strain, as a powder day progresses than other types of skis. I'll bet I'd like the Variant 113, if it's not too burly.

I'll be very interested in how you like the V Rocks. They are so light, yet apparently stiff enough. I wonder if they are damp enough in the crud. The reviews seem to suggest it. A good floater/crudbuster has to be damp enough, to me. (One problem with many DPS skis I tried, for example, for me.)

Also, the D Sender 112/E Motion 112s are the same weight and very similar dimensional specs to my Katanas 112. Incredibly light! They seem like a great ski, and much better pricing than the V Werks Katanas.
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
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I forgot to mention I ran into your friend on her Variants early this season, at Loveland. I vaguely recall her saying she normally skied elsewhere.

K2 Hellbents were the other ski Silverton carried, I believe, at least at one point.

For me, it's often hard to tell how a ski will handle just from eyeballing or flexing it. Lots of variables, design integration, as @cantunamunch mentioned. For instance, reading the Blistergear review of the Ones, Jonathan starts by discussing how the One seems to have a straighter 5-point shape that normally goes with good crudbusting, rather than a more usual 5-point shape that often goes with floppy in crud. This was beyond me, mostly, though I noticed my K2 Pettitors 120 have a shape more like the One, albeit fatter. And they both float and crudbust. (but also carve or slarve at will).

But the Pettitors are fairly heavy, relative to the V Rocks/I Rocks/Katanas, at least.

In my experience, good crudbusters are much less work, and strain, as a powder day progresses than other types of skis. I'll bet I'd like the Variant 113, if it's not too burly.

I'll be very interested in how you like the V Rocks. They are so light, yet apparently stiff enough. I wonder if they are damp enough in the crud. The reviews seem to suggest it. A good floater/crudbuster has to be damp enough, to me. (One problem with many DPS skis I tried, for example, for me.)

Also, the D Sender 112/E Motion 112s are the same weight and very similar dimensional specs to my Katanas 112. Incredibly light! They seem like a great ski, and much better pricing than the V Werks Katanas.

Yeah, she's at Loveland early season and late. I saw both her and Bob Barnes at Loveland early this season, training instructors on the WROD. I'm anxious to test out the V-Rocks, but I know it's the right decision to wait. I mean, who knows if I even *have* feet after the surgery, right? I could get MRSA and lose a limb! (Note: no, that is not the likely outcome.)
 
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dean_spirito

dean_spirito

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What's the buzz surrounding Movement Skis? I signed with them for next season and have 3 pairs heading this way in October. I basically selected the 3 different models sight unseen. I have one pair of their Team model, which was given to me in March. I've enjoyed them, but being a symmetrical twin tip, I don't think they offer a fair representation of what Movement has to offer.
 

ski otter 2

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Movement skis got on my radar from my brother, who is a powder and backcountry guy. (He uses Dynafits on his skis and telemarks also quite a bit, with a telemark setup too.) His abiding favorite ski has been for many years the Movement Source 95, from maybe as much as ten years ago. For him it's a powder ski - he doesn't use a fatter one. He skis it at Wolf Creek backcountry 6-30 times a year, and has for a long time - as well as at Loveland on powder days. He says it has a trampoline- like rebound in powder, allowing a feeling of weightlessness for longer. It's also very light and quick, but no noodle as it carves.

He isn't sure if they've completely changed and/or dropped this ski or not. I heard that they have done both, but not sure. Every now and then, from what I can tell, Movement seems to revive models, at least the names.

Largely because of my bro's Movement crush, I bought a ski swap but unused pair of Movement Jam 84s (Irish green, with some yellow, white and black graphics) for cheap some seasons back. I still use it at times. For me, it carves something like an mx Kastle, with a between sl/gs radius natural turn, but any radius you want also. I enjoy it as a versatile all mountain ski, in bumps, on groomers, or anywhere, except powder. It's heavier and stiffer than the Source, from what I can gather, but very easy and dependable on edge.

I've since run into other skiers who own and love the Jam ski.

Some years' back, I believe Movement was USA made and owned, but they were bought and moved overseas - I believe now made in South Africa? - and they became much more expensive, from what I can gather. Also, the skis became fairly common in Europe and pretty scarce in the U.S.
 
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VladSki

Two Aperols please
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AFAIK, nowadays Movement position themselves as a Swiss company, but their skis (at least those I saw) are made in Tunisia or Morocco.
 

Eric Edelstein

ExoticSkis
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Innovative shaping reputation...nice guys at ISPO shows...I understand
They may outsource some model production to Elan's facilities in various places..hoping to test some this season...good reputation for performance and distinct handling personality.
 

Brian Likes Pow

Out on the slopes
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all over
Ive been skiing fatypus dsenders for a few years now and cannot seem to kill them. Light, stiff enough and really well built. These skis charge hard!

Other skis are made by the mad russian as mentioned in the other thread. Working out some kinks from my first pair and going slightly narrower for more of a daily driver.

Im a big fan of buying from the little guy....would rather a skier make my skis and keep things domestic if possible.
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
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Ive been skiing fatypus dsenders for a few years now and cannot seem to kill them. Light, stiff enough and really well built. These skis charge hard!

I have some brand new V-Rocks (I-Rocks but different graphic) sitting in the basement. Friends swear by them. I suspect I won't get to ski them till two seasons from now, though.
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
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Two seasons?

Busted my ACL in May. Back to skiing *gently* in January, so I'll be using some soft, relatively narrow skis (specifically the yellow Scott The Ski) to keep forces to a minimum. It does not look like my doc would be happy if I skied hard in the coming season. So, yeah. Two seasons, most likely.
 

Brian Likes Pow

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Busted my ACL in May. Back to skiing *gently* in January, so I'll be using some soft, relatively narrow skis (specifically the yellow Scott The Ski) to keep forces to a minimum. It does not look like my doc would be happy if I skied hard in the coming season. So, yeah. Two seasons, most likely.
Damn...at least you're not going to miss a full season. Light easy groomer skiing beats the hell out of no skiing!
 

fatbob

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Busted my ACL in May. Back to skiing *gently* in January, so I'll be using some soft, relatively narrow skis (specifically the yellow Scott The Ski) to keep forces to a minimum. It does not look like my doc would be happy if I skied hard in the coming season. So, yeah. Two seasons, most likely.

Still think you're being hard on yourself given your level of determination. Could well be that light groomers turns into mildly aggressive all-mountain by the end of the season. After all if you get some superlight pow on groom are you not going to ski that day? Better to exceed expectations than otherwise of course.
 

David Chaus

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Busted my ACL in May. Back to skiing *gently* in January, so I'll be using some soft, relatively narrow skis (specifically the yellow Scott The Ski) to keep forces to a minimum. It does not look like my doc would be happy if I skied hard in the coming season. So, yeah. Two seasons, most likely.
OR...you could invest in a sit ski and just let 'er rip.
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
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Still think you're being hard on yourself given your level of determination. Could well be that light groomers turns into mildly aggressive all-mountain by the end of the season. After all if you get some superlight pow on groom are you not going to ski that day? Better to exceed expectations than otherwise of course.

It's not being hard on myself; it's a matter of following dr's orders. And yes, he is a skier - has ACL reconstruction in both knees, himself. I am sure I'll be torn and need to evaluate, but this is what I've been told thus far.
 

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