The art of when to scrape the wax...

[midwestfabs]

So i have a question regarding 'when' to scrape and if it makes a difference scientifically per say and practically as well.

After reading a plethora of post here, epicski.com, skidiva.com, youtube, and other sites on the intraweb thing there is a vast array of opinion on the timing.

I just stated waxing my skis this year and in trying to educate myself from and it interesting that some folks will say wait at least 20+ minutes, to no need to wait, and all in between and beyond.

My minimal understanding is that the ski technically needs enough wax to penetrate the structure/porous portion of the ski. The practice of scrapping, brushing, etc is to remove remove the excess wax and leave behind the wax the ski has absorbed.

Now from what i can gather, as one applies melted wax it starts to heat up the ski and presumably start the process of opening the structure the ski. When one starts to iron the wax /in/on this causes for the wax to then fully penetrate and saturate the structure.

Now at this point does it matter if one waits five minutes (giving the scrapee time for a refill) and scrape when the wax is starting to harden or wait 20+ minutes (or however long) and scrape when it is fully harden? Does scraping too soon 'scrape' wax that has been already absorbed by the ski, thus not allowing the ski to fully accept the necessary wax?

Thanks much

 

[James]

For base prep i believe it's 20-30 min at least. For glide waxes it's at least an hour and preferably more unless it's real cold wax. Edit: see below! More like 3 hours.

Those who know wax recommend the wait. It has to set up. Those who don't but do what they do basically justify.
Here's Dominator on the subject:

Delivering wax to the base: The time element

Sufficient time must be allowed between ironing and scraping: When the wax is melted (liquid), the cards are in random positions, away from each other. As the wax cools and solidifies, the cards are on top of each other but they are not stacked well and internal friction is high. After some time the cards organize themselves to the tight deck and the minimum internal friction. The cooling must be slow, if it happens too quickly (like taking a warm ski outside) the cards freeze in a position that has higher internal friction. Typical “cooling” times between ironing and scraping are overnight for very soft waxes, three hours for normal (pink, universal) waxes, one hour for cold range waxes, and around 15 minutes for extreme cold waxes. If sufficient waiting time is not availalable, paste or rub-on waxes are the best options.

http://www.dominatorwax.com/sites/default/files/dominator/wax-science-demystified.pdf

 

[ErikL]

I've always scraped the same way that James says. The wax has to set up, and if you scrape while it's still soft/liquidish, I could imagine the surface wax pulling some wax out of the base when it gets scraped. My time-tested time-keeping method is simple. I iron on the wax, go away and have a beer, and then after the beer is gone it's time to scrape. That usually ends up being 30-40 mins, sometimes more if I get distracted. Either way, it's better to give it more time than less. I usually leave the wax on my fat skis for days/weeks at a time, until a storm comes through and I need them, and then it's time to scrape.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Which is why hot boxes got invented. Now I have never used one. However in seeing a skier look for any advantage to get better performance than a friend or competitor if you believe it works, it works! And (s)he who as the most tools when they die wins so a hot box is in order.

 

[SlideWright]

ErikL,
It takes you 30-45 minutes to drink a beer? I better slow down.

You definitely want the wax and skis to cool down to room temperature at least before FINAL scraping. I 'think' longer is better but have zero scientific proof, only a belief.

For my 'bench hot boxing' for new skis and freshly ground skis, I'll clean the bases and apply a prep wax. Do something else for a bit and reheat/re-liquefy, let cool and repeat several times. Then scrape, roto brush and apply the wax of the week.

For the above and general waxing, after a few passes, l'll lightly scrape to remove excess wax. Then another pass or two with the iron. This saves scraping later and is less messy.

 

[cantunamunch]

There are practical observations you can make that will tell you you're doing it wrong.

For example, waxes that haven't had time to set up will brush badly. The brush will kind of smear wax over the ski instead of crumbing it up into particles and lifting wax bits off the ski. This is particularly true for warm waxes and base prep waxes - very particularly including Dominator Base Renew, Swix BP 88, Swix F4.

 

[ErikL]

ErikL,
It takes you 30-45 minutes to drink a beer? I better slow down.

Like everything in life, if you go too fast you won't enjoy it as much!

 

[Alexzn]

What I heard from my kids' race coach is that you scrape the base prep wax almost right away, but you leave your real wax on preferably overnight and just put the skis in the warmest place in the house. According to them scraping too soon just dries out the bases.

 

[James]

^^ Race coach is not correct according to the guys from Dominator. Non hot scraped base prep layer (not a cleaning) should set up 30 min.
This from Tom at Dominator:

"For a hot scrape there is virtually no waiting and for the next coat, you can put it on right away and give just enough time to harden a bit, then iron again (without scraping if you want) and add more base prep if the base looks like it is still absorbing the wax. Once it is full, then let it rest again for 30 minutes, then scrape and brush before hot waxing your glide wax.

It is not critical to let the base prep harden as much as it is to make sure the glide wax is allowed the time to reach its optimum hardness (annealing); for glide waxes, I will give it at least a few hours to over night before I make the final scrape."

http://www.epicski.com/t/144562/need-advice-how-to-wax-a-ski-at-the-beginning-of-a-season
Post 28

 

[mdf]

If you don't have time (procrastinate too long) is it better to scrape too soon or not scrape at all?

 

[James]

Aha! This is where use of the fiberlene comes in. Then just don't scrape. I believe that might be better but don't know.

 

[mdf]

Last Saturday I was packing the car when I remembered I never checked the previous week's damage. I did the fastest tune I've ever done, applied wax with fiberlene, checked that the skis didn't still feel hot, and did a gentle scrape, leaving more wax than usual.

In any event, it didn't matter because I switched to the slalom skis after 2 runs.

(It pains me to admit it, but on the "eastern firm" we had, I LOVE those skis. It was the first time I felt that way about them.)