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Supersize Tires = Creaky Bottom Bracket?????

skibob

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So, as I posted in the Gravelenture bike thread, I "supersized" my Fuji Sportif with 35mm tires. Now, after less than 100 miles, the BB has started creaking. Badly! Is it a coincidence? I know that press fit BBs are notorious for creaking. But I hadn't heard a sound out this one for thousands of miles. Now, its suddenly creaky as all get out. Right side only, and only under heavy load. I can lighten the pressure and make it go away. My theory is that the extra resistance of the bigger tires is loading up the BB more.

Here is my post from the other thread for background, and your general amazement that I got 35mm tires to fit (had to remove the RD to install!). FWIW, I continue to love the ride, although it is slightly "sluggish" off the line.

So, my project bike has stalled for a variety of uninteresting reasons. So I decided to put the tires (35mm Conti SportContact) and wheels (good Vuelta MTB wheels) on my Fuji Sportif. As the name implies, its a bit more relaxed geometry than a race bike. Chainstay is 415mm, about 10mm longer than a race bike. Taller head tube also. Almost identical geometry to Specialized Roubaix. Anyway, I had to take off the rear derailleur for installation, but they fit. Just barely! Ran em at 55psi rear, 50psi front. I think I could reduce those pressures slightly. AMAZING ride. I was surprised how much slower they seemed off the line, but plodding along mile after mile of uninterrupted trail, they were great.

N=1, but did my ride about 10 min faster (27 miles) than usual yesterday. Definitely felt the comfort in my butt and hands over the course of the ride. Will keep them on until I can get the project back on track.

It was wet yesterday. I promise I washed it when I got home:

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ZG35SGYnK-BQ2IxE7g3sutOsJQvFt_sOHKdxl5zXmBLsne8d3xQYPZ6Lhpw4evTxVPeyrfG3pUEFK8B8VI3DWTMGiVwOC4wwhZt6zKHSq04bn2l4jyT0g_hWD9sMsDEh-6IbAF_d63EG-Zty1o4jbgjmGIMbrv_sGpPXgzdQRMIkCq9dJ5xEp4XuNsXJGpW6fD2iHRuuAkP1y6ubfuPm9MI3hl8eWV3P-CJs4rvQ1GxYdXizvlnJgtneR1G6OC7dJNedyv6OIm8L4JBZGdVxdlkH9pibIDkEcRU4Mc-QKpf1gYa7xmU_0BoxM8SEFRBic07VOj_HRNKQ-kAr6vuSAfeycHsLOsRB45RpoU_dgcowg7YyCRKyqzEFzhq3-0KXVVVPhq3SMe6n1MMXW3Sfh6vcWC4gHNWuxTOV1i7cuJycmtGnAJrAkQWble2W-r3B-cRp5oSvDXz19cIr-QiFFU7BUP7jndCJWeOH9AmE6GZT4zEcCGh99JAdPFE9s-MfuN6fr74in5yKQT9NLatuThCKZxJyXyZYXgkQewNPehV0YC4WfcrMAje1XDnXnf8YuBz6W1jVv6CR1qe0ql4lUWpmheQv6SNYnFSycdO4lDZ2o8Lt=w578-h771-no


f-_UpfZSuVJ1cSOAi_OvlYeDx8b8lrAEpuN_ZqawIDGrwPKGYHU9DyxHxIQqwmBbyndyclkTxVS-BUnR6W0qsikaltPIlGDjcsWrJVU0xZ2WdCV2gcLMaiCqMkwa9RIRbuUuqQXhWOrhrlspzNtXbepONoH-j9-qTq5Atc3a5flZ2PXCeTO1D5pKYwIqx9AqKhYYCZr0EyUYc5FQWi-N6K249h3AKPVoWc2LbSQedhbNsLSzeTZI3gmGvkMeVNInXzoK35wKZHueQC9Q7T2lGimHZ84uWucIYYFXl9RNprTqCoH0rKS7xu6qhKWOXAMjwV1L8X1Lah7nZps8kXIXYse8sndIYpzbmbrm9RxpLP_YOMbh5hYGinm3anE2BTG_JPiApXJyGJE_wVUjX8SUwd0kIQB7Ul8gHSiKPPgkqxNkLIjRE7ArPjUqwjKMLzf8LuEsBlRuXkEMZW3bqFB_XFFjM-_2Gb2qMUd-8DRkII7auHb9fMOGjua5K_c1uGMTJtIrY28_0jIkGK_yzRG-q1-193xLelzQXCpMh3Xt0eayf9ObqdwbOyNbuXZ6TQs8Hd-wrkriMyAcZN8Pkw8XvgM3VJMbREVr4LxZpGpwqBqJaVRd=w1027-h770-no
 

scott43

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My opinion, BB is a coincidence, if it is, in fact, the BB. Are you sure it's not the rear wheel or cassette?? Tires will make no difference.
 
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skibob

skibob

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My opinion, BB is a coincidence, if it is, in fact, the BB. Are you sure it's not the rear wheel or cassette?? Tires will make no difference.
I disagree that tires can make no difference in the BB (for reasons in my OP), although it of course isn't a direct relationship. But just because it could be, doesn't mean it is.

So I am more interested in hearing your thoughts on the rear wheel and cassette. A few more details. The cassette and wheels are new when I installed the new tires. I did a complete swap. The cassette is identical (10sp 11-32) to the one it replaced. Also, the creaking only occurs under heavy load. I can't make it happen on the stand and in fact I can make it go away by pedaling more gently, and its only really bad when I am pushing hard in a steady rhythm, seated (like grinding out a medium sized hill). Standing to pull away from a stop, I hear it, but not nearly as badly as in the previous sentence.

Oh, and my first ride with the new tires it didn't happen at all (~30 miles). Second ride, it started immediately. I did nothing to the bike in between.

I guess I could also add, this is all in the big ring (50). I haven't been in the small ring on either of these rides.
 
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graham418

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i think scott is right. it is a coincidence. the telling thing is in your op.
But I hadn't heard a sound out this one for thousands of miles. Now, its suddenly creaky as all get out.

they do wear out. and sometimes quite suddenly.
 

crgildart

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If it was already starting to go, the mere act of tightening the axle nuts when putting the wheel back on could have been the straw that broke the camel's back.
 

scott43

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Anytime you remove and replace something there is the chance the new something or the method you used can cause other things to happen. BB's are extremely durable when installed properly and working properly. It's possible, however unlikely, that riding on rough roads has caused road shock through the pedals to do something to the BB but again, I find it unlikely. I worked on bicycles for a long time. I find it more likely that something else you touched has caused the problem. Maybe the dropouts have paint on them and the wheel is secured 100%. Maybe the cassette has an issue. Easy to tell, put the original stuff back on and see if the creak goes away. Creaks are annoying, I totally understand why it's bugging you!! :)
 
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skibob

skibob

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Anytime you remove and replace something there is the chance the new something or the method you used can cause other things to happen. BB's are extremely durable when installed properly and working properly. It's possible, however unlikely, that riding on rough roads has caused road shock through the pedals to do something to the BB but again, I find it unlikely. I worked on bicycles for a long time. I find it more likely that something else you touched has caused the problem. Maybe the dropouts have paint on them and the wheel is secured 100%. Maybe the cassette has an issue. Easy to tell, put the original stuff back on and see if the creak goes away. Creaks are annoying, I totally understand why it's bugging you!! :)
So the big question is, do I need to do anything about it (other than wear earplugs)?
 

scott43

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So the big question is, do I need to do anything about it (other than wear earplugs)?

I would..mostly because I hate noisy bikes. :D Technically, it depends I suppose. Sometimes creaking is harmless, just annoying. Seatpost creak is a good example..or handlebar/stem creak. Some corrosion..whatever..just makes noise. Sometimes it's a dropout coming apart or a crack developing. Those are more serious..especially bonded dropouts or brake bridges. Bearing creaks are generally harmless, just destructive. But if it's already creaking it's probably junk anyway so you just toss and replace. The biggest concern with the BB is, has the unit come loose? Because at that point you can start destroying the threads in the frame, which is a problem. Never ignore BB creaking or clunking. It could also be crankarm creak, although this is far less prevalent since the demise of the 4-sided taper. That was also a destructive creak. Pedals creak at times..easy enough to disassemble and regrease. I've often seen pedals with an insufficient number of ball bearings that causes clunking and creaking. You can check that..they're 1/8" bearings usually and easy to lose one or two during assembly.

Also, cost is an issue. A new BB is relatively cheap. A burned hub is expensive because you have to relace the wheel if you buy a new hub..or buy a whole new wheel.

The biggest bearing failures, just by the way, are BB and rear wheel. I'd disassemble, regrease and put all new bearings in your rear hub annually. BB's are not serviceable sometimes and they're relatively cheap and easy to replace so I don't worry about it so much anymore.

Good luck! :)
 
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skibob

skibob

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New cassette, suddenly creaks under load? Probably your chain.
Wear? I've inspected recently and it was fine, but I'll take another look. Its been 100s of miles, but not 1000s. I'd love to solve with a new chain. Cheap and easy!
 

Jersey Skier

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Make sure the q/r is tight. Make sure the cassette is tight on the wheel. Try putting the old wheel back on and see if creak goes away.
 

Erik Timmerman

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Wear? I've inspected recently and it was fine, but I'll take another look. Its been 100s of miles, but not 1000s. I'd love to solve with a new chain. Cheap and easy!

Can't hurt to check, you'd be surprised how much noise it can make. Shimano TL CN-41 does a good job checking the length. Or swap some parts around and see if the noise goes away. Heck you can always use a new chain anyway.
 
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skibob

skibob

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New cassette, suddenly creaks under load? Probably your chain.
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner! I had a new 10sp chain lying around. Put it on before my ride this morning and . . . no creak! I could have sworn that sound was coming from the BB :huh::doh:.
 

scott43

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Nice! Generally when a chain is worn I've found that skipping under load is more common, or a vibration. But creak is possible! Cool that it's gone. Yeah, the chain and cassette generally wear together in a pair. It's..dangerous?..problematic maybe is a better word, to replace one or the other. There is often a problem with brand new of one and not brand new of the other.
 
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skibob

skibob

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You'll get the creak if it's not worn enough to skip.
I think that was exactly the case. Visual still looked pretty good. No obvious signs of excessive wear on the chain or the cassette either one. But if I understand right, had I kept the existing chain, it would have prematurely worn out my new cassette?
 

Erik Timmerman

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I dunno, I'd expect your chain to wear faster than your cassette, probably would just keep on creaking, but who knows, maybe they'd learn to get along with each other.
 

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