Suggestions for ~170mm bikes for park / lift riding?

[Monique]

I was mostly responding to @Monique's comment that she had already decided to sell her DH bike. To me it sounds like a 160-170 travel bike would be plenty for her, and maybe even better (?) than a full DH bike. Don't get me wrong, I would love to own a DH bike. Although like you said, "nothing in the enduro category is going to provide the confidence that a true dh bike does," and sometimes more confidence is the last thing I need... (I get hurt a lot...)

Yeah, this is what it seems to me, too (of course, you only have access to the data I provided!). And hey, if you want to buy a DH rig, I have a Medium for sale ;-)

 

[Monique]

I'd take a long hard look at the Commencal Supreme SX: https://www.commencalusa.com/PBCPPlayer.asp?ID=1875930

I know nothing about Commencal, but could someone take a look and tell me if they have any reservations about the (slightly discounted) $3700 build kit?

FRAME 2018 SUPREME SX 650b Travel 180 mm
SHOCK ROCKSHOX SUPER DELUXE RC3, 230 x 65 mm, 3 positions
FORK ROCKSHOX LYRIK RCT3 180 mm, solo air, boost
HEADSET RIDE ALPHA, semi integrated, COMMENCAL standard
STEM NEW RIDE ALPHA, aluminium 6061, 40 mm, 31.8 mm, 0° angle
BAR RIDE ALPHA, Alloy 7075, double butted, 30 mm rise, 780 mm, Ø31,8mm
GRIPS RIDE ALPHA, ergonomic grips, plastic one lock, super soft compound
BRAKES SRAM GUIDE RE, 200 mm / 200 mm
SHIFTERS SRAM GX 1 x 11 speed
FRONT / REAR MECH – / SRAM GX 11 speed
BOTTOM BRACKET SRAM GXP Press Fit BB92
CRANKSET SRAM DESCENDANT, 32T, direct mount, boost, 170 mm on S/M, 175 mm on L/XL
CHAIN KMC X11EL-1
CASSETTE SRAM XG 1150, 10-42, 11 speed
RIMS MAVIC 427, 32 holes, hookless, tubeless ready, 27 mm inner
HUBS FORMULA, 32 holes, sealed bearings
SPOKES / NIPPLES PILLAR Spokes, Stainless steel, 2 mm black, Nylock
TIRES MAXXIS HRII 650 x 2.4 EXO TR front and MAXXIS DHRII 650 x 2.3 EXO TR rear
SEATPOST ROCKSHOX REVERB STEALTH, 31.6 mm, 125 mm on S/M and 150 mm on L/XL
SADDLE RIDE ALPHA Super Light foam, CrMo rails

 

[Erik Timmerman]

That's all good stuff. Importantly, the shock and fork are top of the line and the brakes will stop the bike even if you let Sasquatch borrow it.

 

[Monique]

That's all good stuff. Importantly, the shock and fork are top of the line and the brakes will stop the bike even if you let Sasquatch borrow it.

So does it seem weirdly inexpensive to you? Or just good value choices?

And of course, no one's had the chance to ride it for a year etc etc .... but ....

 

[Erik Timmerman]

That's kind of the Commencal way, if that was in a shop it would be closer to 6K. I mean the hubs, stem, bars etc. are kind of budget, but do you care. The frame is essentially what the race bike has been for a year plus. it's not totally new and untried.

 

[Monique]

That's kind of the Commencal way, if that was in a shop it would be closer to 6K. I mean the hubs, stem, bars etc. are kind of budget, but do you care. The frame is essentially what the race bike has been for a year plus. it's not totally new and untried.

Thanks! okay, so I could go ahead and go blind for a good price ... just need to get someone to put it together for me, and figure out how much it costs.

Er, and research a little more.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I wonder how built they are. Paging @joshmatta as a few of his roommates have gotten Commencals.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

This is interesting - not sure about standover, but the price is right - discounted to $4k: https://www.rei.com/product/111781/ghost-framr-8-lc-275-bike-2017

It turns out there's a Pivot demo in Lyons this weekend, and the Firebird has a cheaper lowest end build kit than I'd thought, so I'll see if I can check that out. I can't quite read my husband on whether he's just bemused or truly annoyed that I'm looking around. But demos of big travel bikes aren't that easy to find, so I might as well check it out, even if I can't act on it yet.

While neither Firebird nor Nomad are stocked at my LBS, shop guys have ridden both and suggested that the FIrebird was better, especially as the lowest end Nomad has a Yari fork vs a Fox 36 on the Firebird, and the price difference is only $300. (Those "only $X" tradeoffs are always what gets me in trouble.)

Golden bike shop has both the nomad and firebird in their demo fleet. Look like maybe only a medium for the nomad but usually means they are building the other sizes and coming soon. Worth calling

 

[Monique]

Golden bike shop has both the nomad and firebird in their demo fleet. Look like maybe only a medium for the nomad but usually means they are building the other sizes and coming soon. Worth calling

Thanks!

I wonder how built they are. Paging @joshmatta as a few of his roommates have gotten Commencals.

Let's try that again. @Josh Matta

 

[JsNeagle]

Yeah, this is what it seems to me, too (of course, you only have access to the data I provided!). And hey, if you want to buy a DH rig, I have a Medium for sale ;-)

What is it and how much does it cost?

 

[Monique]

What is it and how much does it cost?

Ellsworth Dare - it's somewhere in the 2009-2011 time frame, not sure exact year. 229mm rear travel. I dunno on price; I was thinking like $1300 but I'm really not sure.

 

[JsNeagle]

If I buy a DH bike I'll likely buy something new(er). I'm actually pretty intrigued by YT bikes right now... $4k for a carbon DH bike seems pretty reasonable...

 

[Monique]

If I buy a DH bike I'll likely buy something new(er). I'm actually pretty intrigued by YT bikes right now... $4k for a carbon DH bike seems pretty reasonable...

Yeah, can't blame you. I do think / hope that there is someone out there, maybe an amateur racer on a limited budget, interested in it. It's such a pretty bike, and my husband has thus far rejected my pleas to use the frame as wall art in the living room ...

 

[Superbman]

You realize that everybody makes a great 160-170 bike now. Pick one with a color scheme you like.

I've always liked the geometry on the Kona Process line: they're overlooked.

If you are still going to ride a lot of lift service it is worth it to stay with bikes on the burliest side of all mountain/ enduro: commencal meta sx/ am, firebird, norco range, slash, nomad, etc I'm sure you know the usual suspects

Oh fwiw I bought and use a 2017 commencal DH supreme v4.2 , it's fabulous and has the best spec per dollar of any DH bike on the market.

 

[Monique]

You realize that everybody makes a great 160-170 bike now. Pick one with a color scheme you like.

So, any thoughts on the Ghost brand that REI is importing from Europe?

 

[Monique]

I demo'd a size small Pivot Firebird today with a mid-level spec. (Lucky me - there just happened to be a factory demo today!) I only had 1.5 hours to demo, including the drive. I hadn't ridden Rabbit Mountain in a couple of years, but I remembered a couple of rock gardens on the first climb, and then there's a long section of continuous red rock - some pointy, some loose, some flat rocks angled up out of the ground. My knee is still pissy, so a short demo was honestly about as much as I could have done even without the time constraint.

That first climb had been sanitized - no sign of my rock gardens. I'm guessing the "rock gardens" were more like "places where water flowed through and exposed rocks, damaging the trail over time." The trail had been eroding badly, and I knew it had been heavily reworked, but I didn't expect that. Fortunately, the rocky climb just past that point was pretty much the same as I remembered.

The point of this demo was to investigate the Firebird's downhill capabilities. But I was *shocked* at how well it climbed. I assume that on a longer climb, I would have eventually missed the SB5 - but man, that Firebird can climb. And that was with a 1x11, not my beloved Eagle. After riding up part of the rocky section, I decided to walk the rest - not because I couldn't have ridden it, but because I was pretty sure it would be faster (for me) to get to the top by walking. And it would be easier on my knee than the climb, so I could save some for the descent.

On the descent, I couldn't get back or low as much as I would have liked, and of course that impacted my speed and confidence. But I made a point of taking harder lines than I usually would. I rode through loose rock - a lot of loose rock. I rode on rocks that angled up and then dropped off abruptly. I can't compare it to how the Yeti would handle this trail, but compared to my old 100mm XC bike, it was pretty damn smooth.

I wasn't able to ride anything remotely "downhill-y" in terms of technical difficulty or speed, but I liked the bike for what I was able to ride. It inspired confidence on descent without being *too* tank-like. I was able to get credit card air on the (very small) water bars I found; my DH rig absorbs so much that I could never have gotten air there.

So I think where I stand is: there was no way for me to demo the bike's true downhill capabilities. Obviously there was nothing on that trail that the SB5 couldn't handle with ease. However, what I do know is that I like how the bike feels. Weirdly, I found it much more responsive and comfortable than the Mach 5.5. Maybe I was just incredibly off the day I demo'd the Mach 5.5. Maybe I just have different expectations for a gravity-oriented bike. Certainly parts of the trail I rode on the Mach 5.5 had bigger drops and scarier rocks, but I couldn't have accessed those with my time limitations (and knee limitations).

The hard part is that without taking it on any true downhill, it's hard to feel the differences that would lead me to wanting to pony up for a second bike. But if nothing else, the extra travel alone would mean that the bike would get less beat up on jump courses than the SB5 would.

It's hard to find long-travel bikes to demo, let alone long-travel bikes in size small. I am grateful to Pivot for giving me this opportunity. I might have been able to get it for a second slot if I'd asked; I don't know. It wouldn't have been a good idea for me today, anyway.

Also had a bit of a discussion with the rep about the differences between the "low end" build ($5k - hah!) and the next up, which is what I rode ($6.1k). He described it as a pretty major upgrade, especially to wheels and shock, but also admitted his 14yo nephew rides the low end build and podiums with older kids on more expensive bikes. Nephew had to replace the wheels because he beat them up - but there's no doubt nephew charges harder than me.

So. Good data. It sure is a purty bike.

 

[laine]

What about a Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail? In gravity mode, it's a 165mm.
http://ridegg.com/megatrail

They're in CO, so you might be able to demo.

 

[Lauren]

I know it's not really what you posted...but just another idea, if you're not completely sold on anything yet. There's a lot of great free ride bikes out there, lighter and not as beefy as a full on downhill. A bit more travel than you're asking for, but for me, it's the perfect compromise between something I can throw around, not really worry about breaking, and a long travel enduro bike. It's not the best to pedal around or anything, but if you're only riding lift service...then Id take the couple slow flat or uphill areas to maximize the downhill fun. I have a Scott Voltage FR 730....nothing spectacular, but meets my needs and I feel much better, when I do fall, about not crashing a much more expensive bike.

 

[Monique]

What about a Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail? In gravity mode, it's a 165mm.
http://ridegg.com/megatrail

They're in CO, so you might be able to demo.

Not a brand I'd heard of! Thanks. I'm not sure what to think about adjustable suspension modes. Seems like one more fiddly thing you have to maintain, especially if you only plan to use one mode. But I really don't know ...

I know it's not really what you posted...but just another idea, if you're not completely sold on anything yet. There's a lot of great free ride bikes out there, lighter and not as beefy as a full on downhill. A bit more travel than you're asking for, but for me, it's the perfect compromise between something I can throw around, not really worry about breaking, and a long travel enduro bike. It's not the best to pedal around or anything, but if you're only riding lift service...then Id take the couple slow flat or uphill areas to maximize the downhill fun. I have a Scott Voltage FR 730....nothing spectacular, but meets my needs and I feel much better, when I do fall, about not crashing a much more expensive bike.

I mean, at that point, maybe I keep my 230mm bike instead? I dunno.

Interestingly (to me) - That rocky section I rode with the Firebird? I went back with my SB5, and I liked the SB5 better. Now, that is slow-speed, bumpy rock. Maybe it was the suspension tuning and could have been easily adjusted. Everything I've read is that the Firebird is a dog until you start going fast. But still, it's weird that a 170mm bike would handle bumpy rock less comfortably than a 130mm bike. Isn't it? I haven't ridden that section on my DH rig (omg just the thought of getting up there - I'd be pushing the bike the whole way), but from experience on similar stuff, it would have been wayyy smoother.

Downhill seems to be a few different "genres" - I can think of flowy, fast, bermed turns; manmade jumps; and rocky, rooty technical sections. I guess it's a lot to ask of a bike to do well on all of that.

My husband asks, why am I even looking for a replacement to the DH rig (bird in hand). This, of course, is what @Mike Thomas already asked. Maybe there's a point to this line of inquiry ....

Now that the "high" from the clinic has waned, and I find that my knee is still feeling the effects of gravity riding at the clinic - three+ weeks later - I'm pretty sure I'm not going to ride anything this season that would benefit from longer travel than my SB5. So that gives me some time to poke around and think about it. Maybe I can get my ducks in a row and track the factory demos, since long-travel bikes aren't typically available to demo at shops, especially in my size. Still tough to demo the downhill aspect, though.

If that Firebird I demo'd shows up on the Pivot list of demo bikes for sale, I would be tempted.

 

[Monique]

Also, I'm kind of late to the party, but it just occurred to me to check pinkbike, and they do actually have a number of size small bikes in the realm. Price, not sure. Even some DH bikes! But no. No. I will not be swayed by a pretty face (triple crown). Already have that. Already know it's excessive. But they sure are purty ...