Subie/VW thoughts?

[scott43]

My wife drove the Outback 2.5 with the CVT and said "that drone is sickening.." I wanted the 3.6 but didn't want to push her in that direction so I insisted she drive the 2.5 to see if she liked it.. 3.6 it is!!

 

[Philpug]

The transmission Subie useed before the CVT was a dinosaur of a 4 speed. Although it was bulletproof it got mediocre fuel economy. The CVT is by no means a enthusiasts dream but the fuel economy has increased with it significantly, I understand the trade offs and the sacrifice they had to make. Loosing a couple of sales, was a calculated risk for them because right now, Subaru is selling more than every have.

 

[jzmtl]

Nothing about a CVT equals 'car guy'... I'm afraid you may have lost whatever you had, more or less.

He's a automotive mechanic and I've been tinkering for 15 years and have done everything from engine rebuild to oil change, I'd say we are more "car guy" than most "car guys".

I also understand enough about CVT to know it provides better performance than either manual or geared auto, not going to argue with better performance and better gas mileage.

 

[Dadskier]

I also understand enough about CVT to know it provides better performance than either manual or geared auto, not going to argue with better performance and better gas mileage.

Performance in what way? I know they are more efficient, but performance is not something I've seen them praised for.

 

[Philpug]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder phil.

I would say our TDI has pretty good road feel for a newer production car, better than the forester that replaced it.

Josh, out of cusiosity, are you doing the Buyback on the TDI?

 

[Josh Matta]

yep.....there is no option to fix ours.

 

[jzmtl]

Performance in what way? I know they are more efficient, but performance is not something I've seen them praised for.

Better acceleration all else being equal. It's able to keep the engine at its peak HP RPM instead of drifting up and down like stepped transmission. If you think about it the reason geared transmission gets more and more gears is because attempting to do the same, CVT simply gives you infinite number of gears. However in practice it depends a lot on how it's programmed, and a lot of manufacturers put economy first.

Here's a video with much better explanation.

 

[scott43]

And to be fair, as jzmtl says, they can be programmed to act like a regular stepped transmission. Several makers do this to avoid the Honda Generator factor. And they do provide more efficiency. Regardless, as an enthusiast, I like to hear a motor going through the gears..I prefer to row the transmission old-school. So yeah, if CVT works for you and you don't care about the "shortcomings", it's probably a better appliance. But for me, banging gears is what it's all about..

 

[Bill Talbot]

That is exactly the problem for me, infinite ratios and computer controlled. Droning constant rpm engines and cvt doing all the work.
I want to make those choices and control where in the powerband I want to be. It's about engagement with the platform.

I will concede that they seem perfect for appliance like transportation and as such many folks won't mind one bit.

 

[oldschoolskier]

If you want and idea about performance think snowmobile. CVT! The CVT in cars was used in the 50's, the draw back then was belt life. The current CVT's have more or less solved this issue for the loads cars put on them.

Performance wise it depends how the system
Is set up, economy or performance.

 

[jzmtl]

If the choice is between manual and CVT then absolutely, I'll take the drawback of manual and sit in rush hour with it (did it for 10 years before Forester).

But between geared auto (include DCT) and CVT then I really don't mind CVT.

 

[luliski]

I never owned an automatic transmission car before I bought my Impreza with CVT. Whenever I rented automatic cars, I hated the feeling of waiting for them to shift. I wanted to shift myself. I don't feel that delay in shifting with the CVT. When driving in the snow I use the paddle shifters often, and love that.

 

[luliski]

Better acceleration all else being equal. It's able to keep the engine at its peak HP RPM instead of drifting up and down like stepped transmission. If you think about it the reason geared transmission gets more and more gears is because attempting to do the same, CVT simply gives you infinite number of gears. However in practice it depends a lot on how it's programmed, and a lot of manufacturers put economy first.

Here's a video with much better explanation.

Thank you!

 

[Dadskier]

Better acceleration all else being equal. It's able to keep the engine at its peak HP RPM instead of drifting up and down like stepped transmission. If you think about it the reason geared transmission gets more and more gears is because attempting to do the same, CVT simply gives you infinite number of gears. However in practice it depends a lot on how it's programmed, and a lot of manufacturers put economy first.

Here's a video with much better explanation.

Ok, I see that. Like the DSG makes a GTi faster than the 6Speed. I'd still pick the 6speed over the DSG for the fun factor. But I'm also about to get my first automatic because I have to size up for family reasons ... will be looking for a fun manual car in a couple years.

 

[Philpug]

. When driving in the snow I use the paddle shifters often, and love that.

I still don't understand how the paddle shifters work with a CVT, LOL.

Ok, I see that. Like the DSG makes a GTi faster than the 6Speed. I'd still pick the 6speed over the DSG for the fun factor. But I'm also about to get my first automatic because I have to size up for family reasons ... will be looking for a fun manual car in a couple years.

Having (at least) a manual transmission in the automotive quiver is a must..especially in a fun car

 

[jzmtl]

Oh yeah absolutely, BRZ, 370z, WRX, and maybe Mustang were my other options last year, but being my only car, starting a family, and gotta fit skis inside got in the way of fun cars.

 

[luliski]

I still don't understand how the paddle shifters work with a CVT, LOL.

Well, don't ask me, but they work!

 

[Snowfan]

I still don't understand how the paddle shifters work with a CVT, LOL.

The TCM (trans control module, ie, trans computer) simulates gear shifts in most operating conditions. The only time I have noticed 'droning' or 'slipping', which is not actually slipping, but sounds like it, is when cresting a hill in auto mode with cruise control enabled. I guess that's the 'droning' people dislike. I think of it more like snowmobiling or carting. Most of the time, the CVT in my 17 OB 2.5 behaves like a 6 speed AT.

The paddles work in automatic or manual mode. After using the paddles in A mode the trans defaults to normaI a few seconds after the TCM determines the requested shift is no longer needed. In manual mode, the trans simulates a clutchless manual. The paddle 'shifts' are fast and crisp and stay in 'gear' until redline where the rev limiter kicks in. Just like a manual. Manual mode works great to engine brake. With 3800 lbs to haul around and 175hp to do it with, the OB paddles are tools, not toys.

 

[luliski]

The TCM (trans control module, ie, trans computer) simulates gear shifts in most operating conditions. The only time I have noticed 'droning' or 'slipping', which is not actually slipping, but sounds like it, is when cresting a hill in auto mode with cruise control enabled. I guess that's the 'droning' people dislike. I think of it more like snowmobiling or carting. Most of the time, the CVT in my 17 OB 2.5 behaves like a 6 speed AT.

The paddles work in automatic or manual mode. After using the paddles in A mode the trans defaults to normaI a few seconds after the TCM determines the requested shift is no longer needed. In manual mode, the trans simulates a clutchless manual. The paddle 'shifts' are fast and crisp and stay in 'gear' until redline where the rev limiter kicks in. Just like a manual. Manual mode works great to engine brake. With 3800 lbs to haul around and 175hp to do it with, the OB paddles are tools, not toys.

Very cool, thanks for sharing!

 

[colospgmike]

thanks to everyone so far on this thread. I am doing the research myself this summer on Alltrack vs Outback. Going to keep my 07 Yukon XL, but 10 years and 131K later time for a different daily driver.